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How Doctors Die
Zocalo ^ | 11/30/2011 | Ken Murray

Posted on 12/07/2011 1:11:20 AM PST by JerseyanExile

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To: rlmorel

I never said that I agreed with what the author wrote. My own mother is currently living proof of why numbers alone don’t tell the whole story. She contracted breast cancer back in the early ‘80s, and the chances they gave her weren’t all that good. Breast cancer treatments weren’t as far advanced then as they are today, and they were talking about her having a 50% chance of survival 10 years later. She went through chemo, and eventually had to have a mastectomy. It was miserable for her, but was it worth it? Well, here we are well over two decades later, and she’s perfectly fine, without any recurrence.

Numbers can be deceiving - true, the chance of CPR actually saving a life is pretty small, only something like 3% of people who have it performed on them survive. But you know what? I’d take those odds over nothing - heck, multiply that 3% by the number of people who have a cardiac arrest, and the amount of people saved each year by CPR is probably in thousands. A small price to pay for a few cracked or broken ribs.

I posted it because I thought it might be of interest here, not because I agreed with all of its sentiments.


101 posted on 12/07/2011 9:13:40 AM PST by JerseyanExile
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham
This article is little more than propaganda for the death panels that are an integral part of ObamaCare.

Exactly!

Pancreatic cancer is often not diagnosed until the late stages and it's not unusual for a person to opt to not do anything. However, many cancers a fully treatable and it would be insane for someone to not take it.

102 posted on 12/07/2011 9:17:49 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: goat granny; drierice
I'm sorry for your loss. You must still be feeling the pain of loss. She was young and I know how you probably feel, my husband was 51 and had his first and last heart attack. No history of heart problems and he passed on sitting in the shade of his pick up truck while we were putting up hay in the barn....It seems forever my giving him CPR. before the ambulance arrived but we lived in a rural area...

Been there, done that with my dad.

He suffered a major heart attack napping on the couch. I happened to be home that afternoon, pulled him off the couch after calling 911 and did CPR.

They worked on him for over an hour to no avail.

However, I'd try again if I saw anyone have a heart attack.

I'm sorry to hear of both your losses. Some things you never really quite get over.

My mom died from breast cancer which metastasized but she only lasted about a month after diagnosis. It was very aggressive cancer.

Having gone through it both ways, the sudden is a bigger shock and more disruptive, but I found it easier to deal with in the long run.

103 posted on 12/07/2011 9:24:02 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: wagglebee; Dr. Brian Kopp

Agreed.


104 posted on 12/07/2011 9:24:25 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: JerseyanExile
Thank you for coming on and posting your opinions. People here get very suspicious when someone posts something like this and walks away without responding.

You said this regarding your Mom: "...She went through chemo, and eventually had to have a mastectomy. It was miserable for her, but was it worth it?"

I would say (and I suspect you would agree) that would be her call...my best friend's sister, married with two pre-teen kids, just lost a five year battle with leukemia. In all my years in medicine, I have never, ever seen anyone fight as hard as this woman fought, and she did it for her kids. Just unbelievable. My friend was amazed, astonished and appalled at what she went through to try and beat it. She was hospital-bound and bed-bound for a long, long time. But he says, as miserable as she was, she was willing to endure nearly anything out of love for her two young children. So it was her call, though an extreme one.

To her it was worth it.

105 posted on 12/07/2011 9:31:07 AM PST by rlmorel ("A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Winston Churchill)
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To: JerseyanExile
I am going to call BS on this entire article.

Let me guess, he is one of those guys who thinks rationing and Obamacare is just the bees knees.

106 posted on 12/07/2011 9:38:18 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (*Philosophy lesson 117-22b: Anyone who demands to be respected is undeserving of it.*)
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To: JerseyanExile

Thanks so much for posting this.


107 posted on 12/07/2011 9:39:30 AM PST by mombonn (God is looking for spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.)
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To: JerseyanExile; iowamark; ryderann; SargeK; NavVet; June2; drierice; goat granny; NTHockey; ...
There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be born and a time to die...

My father (terminal cancer) was so afraid of being hooked up to machines that kids and grand-kids took turns sleeping in his hospital room. This was before the living will days...

A few nights before he died there were five or six of us - some sleeping on the flood... A nurse came and said, “Either he's very rich - or very loved”. Amid the laughter were our voices saying, “very loved”. And he was.

Artificially prolonging pain and suffering is unconscionable...

108 posted on 12/07/2011 9:39:54 AM PST by GOPJ (Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, Than a fatted calf with hatred - Proverbs 15)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear; wagglebee; Dr. Brian Kopp
I am going to call BS on this entire article.

Let me guess, he is one of those guys who thinks rationing and Obamacare is just the bees knees.

**********************************

That wouldn't surprise me at all.

109 posted on 12/07/2011 9:43:13 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I don’t have a problem with the observation that physicians and nurses often have the view that when they get near the end, they are much more matter-of-fact about what they specifically do and don’t want.

Many of them have (over the course of their careers) been witness to patients who were tortured by the rigid rules of care of the medical profession or by their family’s refusal to let go long after they should have.

It is a fact of life, anyone who has worked long enough in health care sees it, and any thinking person will take precautions to ensure they don’t end up in that spot.

Is that an area we can all improve on? Absolutely 100%.

Is that an area we want the government making decisions for us in? Absolutely 100% NOT.

(And by the way, this physician who makes these blanket statements about homeopathic medicine and such is perhaps living in a cloistered world view in his corner of California. It doesn’t match what I have seen in the real world.)


110 posted on 12/07/2011 9:44:59 AM PST by rlmorel ("A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Winston Churchill)
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To: Coldwater Creek; NCSEADOG

I’ve been praying for you regularly since I heard about your condition back on that thread by NCSEADOG about his eating disorder.

For him too, for that matter.


111 posted on 12/07/2011 9:46:30 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Coldwater Creek
Actually until one is faced with the kiss of death, you really don't know how you would react.

Staring your own mortality in the face is a life changing experience, for sure.

112 posted on 12/07/2011 9:47:48 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: NELSON111

First of all please quit putting words in my mouth. Your money, my money and the taxpayer money never entered my mind. I made a statement I believe to be true. You can have your opinion; just don’t tell me you are the only one who has one.

At the very least learn some manners.


113 posted on 12/07/2011 10:03:32 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Nifster
*****I want only palliative and life will be just fine***

Thats how I want it also...

114 posted on 12/07/2011 11:11:58 AM PST by goat granny (.)
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To: metmom

Thanks! Don’t stop. It is getting harder and harder to breathe. I live in Memphis, Tn. Today we had a beautiful rare 2 inch snow fall, the second of this season. It was great just to open the blinds and enjoy God’s handiwork.


115 posted on 12/07/2011 11:21:27 AM PST by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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To: metmom

I think we always have to try when in that situation..We don’t know the future, but can only do the best we can in any situation...like your situation with your father. Its harder when we see someone we love go through much pain and suffering and we cannot do much except stand with them.


116 posted on 12/07/2011 11:26:35 AM PST by goat granny (.)
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To: GOPJ

that is a wonderful story and your father raised a great family...:O)


117 posted on 12/07/2011 11:29:08 AM PST by goat granny (.)
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To: dawn53

My grandmother was felled by a stoke many years ago. My grandfather kept her at home with the services of nurses. She had no movement except her eyes and no special equipment to speak of. She lived 7 more years. We wouldn’t have it any other way. Also, he was wheelchair bound; but drove a car.

I believe everyone has a quality of life. It is how it is perceived.


118 posted on 12/07/2011 11:55:10 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: rlmorel

My parents were both docs and my daughter is a hospice nurse. I volunteer at the local hospice because all too often family memebers are unwilling to be around those who are passing through this veil of tears. I do not advocate one point ot view over the other. I know what I want for myself. I know that for those for whom I am a voice, I make sure THEIR wishes are provided. I am not suggesting that the author has it 100% right, just that those I know in the medical field tend towards minimal procedures at the end of life....comfort care or palliative care is what most of them want. If someone wants everything possible done, good for them. I support their right to make that choice. I advocate for families to be involved and informed that is all. I guess I wasn’t very clear on that. Sorry for the confusion


119 posted on 12/07/2011 12:16:21 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Liz

Roger Ebert has said that he feels he went against doctors’ advice when he first went sick. He’s been honest about that and I do admire his stoicism (if nothing else!)

The Hitchens article is very hardhitting. I had to put my hand over the photo that accompanied it because he looked so...different. His basic theme is: that which doesn’t kill me, makes me WEAKER. He’s truthful in his way as Ebert has been.

Bottom line: everyone faces mortality differently!


120 posted on 12/07/2011 12:48:17 PM PST by miss marmelstein (Still heartless after all these years...)
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