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Booing the Character Issue - We should care if the accusations against Cain are true.
National Review ^ | 11/11/2011 | Mona Charen

Posted on 11/11/2011 5:56:26 AM PST by TBBT

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To: 5thGenTexan
I'm not going over the top in defense of Cain. The people accusing him have an established track record of false accusations. Why is that not enough for you to dismiss their accusations?

Yup there are track records to consider and that can certainly lead one to speculate one way or the other. But to dismiss the allegations out of hand because of track records is one step to far - at least for me. Regardless there is still the possibility that the allegations are true and that should caution ones approach to this.
221 posted on 11/11/2011 8:49:26 AM PST by TBBT
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To: Aleya2Fairlie
There’s an old adage that says “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.”

There's another older adage, actually a mainstay of our free country.....innocent until proven guilty!

Show one bit of proof that Cain has does anything untoward with these women.

I can tell you that my teenage son was sued because of a car accident.It took them almost one year to figure out how they were going to 'get' us....the "victim's" husband sued for lack of consortium. She was a shyster but our insurance company settled. We were never informed of the settlement.

That's how it works in the real world. You are not necessarily told what is going on when a settlement occurs.

Before you lay all blame at Cain's feet, look at the motive of two suspect women. Miss "Happy at the mic" lives in the same apt. complex as David Axlerod and the other one brought suit against a subsequent employer partly for an email that she deemed inappropriate (too sexual in nature).

Plus, Cain has a long public career, why are these claims from only a 2 year period out of what, 30 years?

You should really think things through instead of just throwing out baseless accusations.

222 posted on 11/11/2011 8:49:31 AM PST by CAluvdubya (I STAND WITH CAIN)
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To: livius

You said: “...the appalling smearing of the accusers - and even attacks on the verified victims, since the women who filed the original claims have been blamed and then intimidated into not defending themselves or even revealing their identities...”

**************
Be specific:

How did Cain “smear” the accusers?
How did Cain “attack” the “verified victims”
Who “verified” them and how were they “verified”?
How did Cain “intimidate” these women?

Please explain in detail providing sources and specifics.


223 posted on 11/11/2011 8:49:38 AM PST by Yooper4Life (They all lie.)
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To: RexBeach
I think it demeans us. We are better than that.

Who is "we?" Got a mouse in your pocket?

What demeans us? There is no "there", there. All this is a non-event. It's manufactured. Helloooooo.

Sheesh. Some people are so easily deceived. No wonder Alinski is considered a God.

224 posted on 11/11/2011 8:52:22 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: TBBT

how does one determine these “he said /she said” accusations that all come from Chicago during a specific time frame?

The only accusation I have heard has Caine acting like a potential rapist then hearing her say no and driving the woman to her hotel.

How will I ever know if that is true ?

In Clinton’ s case you had Paula Jones pursue her recent charges in court. and you had Jennifer Flowers with tapes.

where is the evidence here?


225 posted on 11/11/2011 8:52:56 AM PST by woofie (It takes three villages and a forest of woodland creatures to raise a child in Obamaville)
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To: indylindy
“What Cain said is that he wasn't’t privy to the how the NRA ended it.”

You are correct; however, it is obvious most people (FReepers included) really don't understand how these types of complaints are handled or what the rules/regulations regarding them are. I have been down this road; so, I have intimate knowledge of the process

The whole complaint process is not like a standard judicial proceeding where the rights of the accused are protected and he/she is considered “innocent until proven guilty.” These types of complaints are filed against the ORGANIZATION (the NRA in this case) and THE ORGANIZATION makes all the decisions regarding the validity and dispensation of the complaint.

In effect, the accused is guilty until proven innocent. He or she has few rights and absolutely no control over whether the complaint is settled or rejected. It is a very costly process and organizations routinely make settlements for complaints that they know are frivolous; because the cost of the proceedings (both administrative and legal) is is extremely high. Usually, this means a relatively small settlement w/no admission of guilt or wrongdoing by the individual or the organization.

When a final agreement/settlement is made w/a complainant it is COMMON PRACTICE for the the accused individual to be excluded from the details. Gloria Allred ADMITTED that fact on Hannity last night. Mr Cain said he recused (removed) himself from the whole complaint process at the very beginning and that would also be standard practice where the accused is part of the direct chain of command for the complainant. Certainly this would be the case where a CEO was accused. Therefore, it is quite likely that Mr Cain would not have been given the details of the final agreement/settlement that the NRA made w/the complainant.

226 posted on 11/11/2011 8:53:45 AM PST by Ozymandias Ghost
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To: dfwgator

Yes, that is the question. The smear campaign did not happen by accident.


227 posted on 11/11/2011 8:53:48 AM PST by Yooper4Life (They all lie.)
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To: FourtySeven

Great! Too many times good posts get written here in FR and the only people who see them are the people here in FR.

I’ve often thought of opening up a bunch of login accounts on various newspapers and posting stuff in comment sections lifted directly here from FR.

The effort would be huge, and I’d have to ask everyone’s permission of course, and I just don’t have the time.

But if I ever GET spare time, that’s one of the things I might spend it on.


228 posted on 11/11/2011 8:57:12 AM PST by samtheman
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To: TBBT
But to dismiss the allegations out of hand because of track records is one step to far - at least for me.

And what is it about Cain that make accepting his assertions in this "one step too far" for you?

At least you are being consistent - you ignore the accusers track record to give them the benefit of doubt, you also ignore Cain's track record to continue to doubt him.

I choose to take into account both side's track record.

229 posted on 11/11/2011 8:58:26 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: concerned about politics

If you can’t figure that one out, I will be unable to help you.

Thanks for your post.


230 posted on 11/11/2011 9:05:15 AM PST by RexBeach (There is no such thing as a good tax - Winston Churchill)
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To: woofie
How will I ever know if that is true ?

You may never know. You have to consider what is known, what is not known, and what can't be known and come to your own conclusions. My concern is that we don't go over the top in a defense - particularly when we can only speculate about the actual truth - that we start coming off sounding like Davis and Carville. Based on what is known at the moment its still possible - even if remotely - that these women are telling the truth. Again how this is handled will reflect... My guess... Cain may be innocent. Do I want to go making baseless accusations or start promoting notions that this is a some kind of high tech lynching? I don't know if I would go that far base on what I've seen and for our talking heads to do so with such vigor borders on a Davis and Carville analogy.
231 posted on 11/11/2011 9:11:48 AM PST by TBBT
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To: TBBT

I do like this article and accept her premis.... I remember people in Arkansas had lots of stories about Clinton and sex..... I heard from a relative there who told me Clinton left an event and got into a hot tub with several young women.

Are there any similar stories or rumors about Caine?


232 posted on 11/11/2011 9:20:31 AM PST by woofie (It takes three villages and a forest of woodland creatures to raise a child in Obamaville)
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To: bcsco
Anybody who seriously criticizes Jim, especially after posting here for months, should be zot on sight. Zero tolerance for that nonsense should be the law of the site.

I hope that the troll saw your Post #40, whether before or after losing its posting privileges.

Trolls: Don't mess with Jim.
233 posted on 11/11/2011 9:28:21 AM PST by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list)
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To: samtheman

An interesting idea. “Knowing” you as I do from here, I’d trust your judgement wrt posting any post of mine you see fit on newspaper sites. But yes you’d have to ask others for their permission.

Actually, I’ve thought as you have on occassion. I have made attempts in the past to post my own thoughts elsewhere in this regard. I’m not sure how effective they were. (last concerted effort on my part was during the 2004 reelection of Bush). I’d like to think I had some impact in some key states, of course I’ll never know. I’ve been discouraged by my local situation (the Republic of Maryland is so hostile to conservatism here in the Baltimore area)

Since 2004, and especially since the discouragements of 06 and 08, I have decided to focus efforts here on FR. It’s true “we” are the only ones to see it. However, as I’m sure you are aware, this isnt your normal, average “chat site” or “message board”. This site has a proven track record of affecting the “real” world directly! It’s definitely the “premier” site for conservatism on the Internet. Definitely, worth the time, especially for those with little time to spare.

FReep on,


234 posted on 11/11/2011 9:33:24 AM PST by FourtySeven (When does the race card run out of credit?)
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To: TheOldLady

It was a specific attack of both Free Republic and Jim. Saying “We have been ordered...” is an outright lie on how Jim manages this forum. I don’t know his prior posting history, though others on this thread remarked about it. But this was way over the top.

Not to hijack a thread, but how’s the graphics work coming? I’ve been more in to capturing jazz video online for making personal DVDs lately.


235 posted on 11/11/2011 9:36:36 AM PST by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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To: TBBT

Bullshit!

National Review is gunning to knock out as much of Cain’s support as possible.

They are an establishment rag, and should be rejected out of hand.


236 posted on 11/11/2011 9:46:57 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: TBBT

Maybe just a little OT:

http://nation.foxnews.com/sharon-bialek/2011/11/11/fianc-cain-accuser-now-ex-fianc

The Bialek fiance says they aren’t engaged anymore, and she has not been living with him since February. So how does the “full-time single mom” support herself?


237 posted on 11/11/2011 9:48:33 AM PST by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: RexBeach

>> “That gives me a downright creepy feeling.” <<

.
Judging by your posting history, you are downright creepy, it isn’t just a feeling.

Now go back to the Romney 2012 office and have a cold one (and I don’t mean drink)


238 posted on 11/11/2011 9:50:37 AM PST by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Brookhaven

I’ve never understood what a “moderate, independent” woman is anyway...the ones I know who like that title...are libs/dems but don’t want to admit it.


239 posted on 11/11/2011 9:53:42 AM PST by Mountain Mary (Awaken Oh America.)
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To: Genoa

Supposedly (from the video), it’s through child support from the boy’s father (Naze West, based on the documents found earlier here on FR). He’s wealthy, so it may be a fair amount. IOW, child support = her income.


240 posted on 11/11/2011 10:07:04 AM PST by bcsco (A vote for Cain will cure the Pain!)
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