Posted on 11/05/2011 3:16:26 PM PDT by blueyon
Republican 2012 presidential candidates Republican 2012 presidential candidates Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich met in a Lincoln-Douglas style debate on current economic and social issues facing the U.S.
I'll deal with two points from your comment, the 2nd first:
The point being made in this thread was that all the ideas from this debate that people liked, Perry shares those ideas, and in most cases has already IMPLEMENTED them in Texas. So it can't be that freepers hate his ideas on the whole. THere are a few things they dislike, but there are a few things about every candidate.
And I say this a lot, but I'll repeat it here. You can't take a "preference" poll and extrapolate a "dislike" number. The preference is a "1st choice" preference. A lot of us for example would support the ideas of multiple candidates, but we have to pick ONE in a preference poll. THere's no way 90% of the electorate hates Rick Perry -- I know some perry detractors wish that was the case, but it's a virtual impossibility. Just as 70% of the people don't hate Cain.
If you want to know the unlikability, you have to ask it in the poll -- "who wouldn't you support in any case".
IN fact, in the polls we DO have, we find that the "preferences" are actually very weak. IN most polls, we are finding that 60-70% of those polled have not actually made up their minds, and could change their pick. Which we saw as Perry dropped and Cain shot up -- people were changing their mind. And while Cain is riding high now, in one poll only 30% of his supporters said they were committed to voting for him -- the other 70% "preferred" him today, but thought they could change later.
As a former Palin supporter, you must remember that polls are for strippers. I don't understand how so many Palin supporters, having jumped on the Cain Train, have forgotten that polls are meaningless, and instead are attacking Perry for low poll numbers, even though his numbers aren't any worse than Palin's were when we were dismissing HER low poll numbers.
A Paul fan eh?
"Perry is brilliant (cept when he splains his self, or anything else), he invented all the jobs in Texas, plus he shoots coyotes when they are heartless."
If you can do that, all will be well.....
:-)
You will not likely get a serious or direct answer. Charles has a post history filled with thousand+ word rants that not so cleverly duck the issues and questions at hand. I recommend Freepers check that history for themselves.
He may lie, but his posts do not.
You dealt with nothing. 90% of America rejects Perry Charles. Spin it however you like.
What he IMPLIMENTED is the whole problem. But you just refuse to see that.
Guardasil/illegal BS/TTC...all of it you deny as a problem, but America sees that it is.
I hate getting sucked into this, but I can’t resist.
I have NOTHING against Perry. But what on earth makes you think Newt and Cain would have to “parrot” him? Newt has spoken and written on political ideas for 4 decades, give or take. If some of his ideas are similar to ideas Perry has offered, so what? Isn’t that to be expected since they’re both basically conservatives?
I submit there’s nothing in Newt Gingrich’s record to indicate he needs to steal ideas from Rick Perry. While he was fighting a seemingly quixotic quest to earn the GOP a House majority for the first time in four decades, I’m pretty sure Perry was still a Democrat. Did Perry steal Newt’s idea to be a Republican?
Hank
Ouch!
Hey Homer, its 2 AM, I am going to bed.
Homer? More snark, just as I said.
Well, once again you have proven the kind of person you actually are. Ducking issues, questions and giving snarky answers in return to the very questions YOU ASKED FOR.
There it is folks. This is why Freepers are so down on Rick Perry supporters all wrapped up in one pathetic troll.
I was on the phone to my brother, and it is late.
gnight.
You were on the....
That has to do with what exactly?
“Sorry, I refuse to answer the questions I asked for because I was on the phone with mu brother and while I found the time to post on FR to tell the world that bit of important information, it left none to actually answer said question.”
Yup, perfect Perry fanatic logic.
“If you are a Gingrich supporter, you are the next target, since he’s coming up in the polls and looks like a threat now. SO I figure a few of the same Cain supporters will start calling you names and saying you’re a RINO and attacking you when you make comments.”
Actually, this is a projection. It is Charles who always attacks the more conservative candidate, which often puts him at odds with posters on FR.
First Palin...now Cain...He is not a Perry supporter, he supports Romney.
Actually that’s nothing new for him. He has wilfully admitted in a prior thread that he was a Romneybot in 08.
That said, among a deeply flawed field, it seems pretty clear Newt is ready to make a move. The next few actual debates (albiet lame MSM events) will be interesting. The real action will have nothing to do with Perry or Romney, imo, unless it's Perry screwing up again or Romney getting clobbered.
At least there won’t be a bumbling, stumbling, stuttering moron tonight.
That was the first reference to Perry -- an attack on Perry, in a response to someone saying they weren't interested in the debate
HAAAA! Perry was invited.
An attack on perry claiming falsely that he was invited to THIS debate
Just for S&G google "Rick Perry and "The crotch".
That's 3 attacks. not ONE perry person had said ANYTHING negative about Cain or Gingrich
That must be Willie Mitty and Rick acting up...
another attack on Perry
Rick Perry was invited to have his own one-on-one moderator-free debate with the candidate of his choice. So far he has turned them down. Guess he prefers the "gotcha" 60 second soundbite debates.
This one at least got the story right, but it's still an attack on Perry.
Look Reagan could debate and Perry cannot.
Another attack on Perry.
He had a long interview on Hannity two nights ago and Hannity asked tough questions. Perry did beautifully.
First pro-Perry post; it is a response to the "Perry wouldn't do the one-on-one debate"
Had no idea Perry was invited and declined. Says a lot.
Another attack on Perry based on the false "he was invited tonight" claim
Why would Perry not want to participate? :-)
And another He wasn’t and didn’t.
2nd pro-perry person, correcting the error above that Perry was invited to THIS debate and declined. Still NO negative Cain/Gingrich comments from ANY perry people.
They have a pre-debate test and you must pass it for admittance.
Another attack on Perry for not being at tonight's debate.
He was and he did.
Response to correction earlier, misstating that Perry was invited to tonight's debate. Included a link to the wrong page of information
[A repeat of post 82, saying Perry refused a separate one-on-one debate.
Accurate, but still an attack on Perry.
I’m in blogger section, tweeting @bnuckols #caingrich # tcot
That's the 3rd freeper I would identify as a pro-perry freeper, but the comment has nothing to do with Perry, and is about being AT the debate.
This was a picture of someone laughing, with a quote about Perry being conservative
attacking Perry for not being a conservative
Blogging or reporting back to Perry? :^)
Another reference to Perry; kind of a jab at the freeper, who didn't mention Perry
A picture mocking Perry's bad debate performance
Another unprovoked Perry attack
Looks like Cain is liking Perry's tort reform laws.
this is a new freeper -- mention's perry, but doesn't attack anybody, and it's about something said in the debate.
So nice to see republicans that are actually able to speak without making you wince. Bush, Palin, Perry....eeeek.
Another unprovoked attack on Perry.
Perry can not beat “the one” in a debate so I just can’t go there this time
And another.
Perry can not beat “the one” in a debate so I just can’t go there this time
Another freeper repeats this and agrees with it.
My first post, explaining that Perry was NOT invited to THIS debate.
At this point, I'm going to have to apologize. I know I entered this thread a bit ticked off at the vitriol I was getting in other threads. I figured "Cain/Gingrich, at least I won't have to put up with attacks on Perry". And then I read through the first 400 posts, and saw all those attacks above, so I wasn't as nice in response as I should have been. But still, no attack on Cain or Gingrich from me or the perry supporters at this point.
Perry is a coward. He prefers the shot in the back.
Another unprovoked attack on Perry. This is the one that got me mad.
He shot Romney in the back, but lets keep to the debate.
I should have listend to this one -- but I interpreted it still as an attack on Perry for fingering Romney as the source of the leaks, which Perry didn't do
I thing Romney would wilt in this kind of debate...Perry.....pfffsttt....
Yet another attack on Perry.
ROmney/Perry were invited to do their own 1-on-1. Doubt they will
My 2nd post to the thread, pointing out to the bad-link poster above that they were invited to their own debate, NOT THIS ONE.
Can you imagine either of them [Perry/Romney] debating Joe Biden in a VP debate?
Another attack on Perry
455 (8:56:07): Whatever you do, don’t point out Perry has already reduced medical costs in Texas with Tort Reform
This was a post to ME. It's a pro-perry post, but deals with something that just came up in the debate, saying Perry has accomplished this already. Still no anti-Cain stuff by ANY perry supporter.
No, I can’t. Can I imagine either one in a monologue?
Another attack on Perry
Perry has decided he can't run with the big dogs and has elected to sit on the porch.
In response to the substantive comment that Perry did Tort Reform, another attack on Perry
Why, why, why do you have to demean Perry all the time? He is a good man and has good ideas
This was targetted at one of the Perry attacks. Just asking for civility, and still NO ATTACK ON CAIN
Perry will have his time if he decides he’ll debate again...currently he says he won’t
Another false attack on Perry (he's doing 5 more debates), and an attack on a pro-perry person for saying something about Perry.
Don’t waste your time trying to pry open welded shut minds.
A personal attack on a freeper who mentioned Perry's pro-tort-reform position.
So at this point, we are an hour into the debate. That's EVERY reference to Perry. ONE perry person expressing disinterest in the debate. Three pro-perry comments about items brought up IN the debate. NO attacks on Cain or Gingrich from a Perrry supporter. OVER A DOZEN attacks on Perry, including false attacks about him not being at the debate.
I think it is very unfair of you or anyone else to blame Perry supporters for "sidetracking" the debate. As should be clear by the links above, there were multiple negative references to Perry in this debate thread before ANY perry folks turned negative, and only THREE out of the first 500 posts were pro-Perry: all were comments about issues brought up IN the debate.
If the people in this thread wanted to keep it about Cain and Gingrich, they shouldn't have posted all the unprovoked attacks on Perry. If you are going to attack a candidate, you have to expect the candidate's supporters to show up and respond.
Still, I apologize for responding to the bait. It didn't make things any better.
BFLR
Could have, didn’t.
When somebody called Perry a coward who would stab people in the back, I responded.
I responded to another post of yours showing that in the first 500 or so posts, the 1st hour of the debate, there were NO attacks on Cain by any perry folks, and only three pro-perry comments by perry folks.
There was ONE pro-perry guy at the beginning, who said he wasn’t going to watch the debate (didn’t attack anybody, and didn’t say anything about Perry). Perry was attacked after that, and he and a Cain person were warned by the moderator to knock it off.
Meanwhile, more than a dozen anti-Perry comments were made, and attacks were made on pro-perry freepers. All BEFORE any anti-Cain remarks.
There were THREE pro-perry comments in that hour, all single sentence or so pointing out he shared the view of a participant in the debate. All of those comments provoked multiple attacking responses that were not responding to the issue, but were personal attacks.
I did want to know the truth, and I did go back and check, and I’ve provided the evidence. This isn’t the first time — the Cain folks are deliberately provoking ocnfrontations with pro-perry folks, ridiculing them, teasing them, using childish name-calling, and then complaining when their provocations are answered.
It’s rather childish and immature. We’d all be better off without it, but I know some people are just getting their jollies. But if you do, don’t complain when you get the expected response.
Your blatant mischaracterization of the other thread will have to pass for now — as a long time freeper, you should know better than to drag disputes from other threads into unrelated threads.
If you want to have it out, put a link here to what you are talking about, and I’ll go back over their and prove you wrong. It’s a waste of time, but I won’t have you falsely attacking me and hurling baseless charges where they don’t belong.
I’ve posted a list of the Perry references in the first 500 or so posts, to prove that it wasn’t the Perry folks who “disrupted” the thread.
My point about you not being here was that it was rediculous for YOU to comaplain about a thread being hijacted when you weren’t here to be disturbed by it, and your first post was itself an off-topic hijack of the thread.
As to the “call a mod and run to JR” — I know there are some who like to go crying to the moderators. But as an adult in an adult forum, I like to think that other adults can be adults and settle things like adults.
And if I run into people who behave like children, I eventually ignore them.
But it’s still stupid to say his wife wouldn’t vote for him.
I actually care about the presidency, and so I do the research. I would have thought more people in a forum like this would do the same.
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