He is seeing progress. What he’s frustrated with is the disconnect between the leadership and the boots on the ground.
We have companies gathering intel, but nobody wants to hear it. Guys see a job that needs to be done, but nobody listens. The army is a huge bureaucracy and, at this point, everything being reduced to paperwork. Most of the work being done over there is just ‘housekeeping’ to maintain our presence. That’s the problem with maintaining a large presence in a foreign land. The BOTG are frustrated with the disconnect between what they’re trying to do and the glacial pace of the response. But there is much progress being made.
Why else is it so painfully slow?
I think that the main problem is that we’re dealing with an uneducated people. 30 years ago, Iraq was a nation in the process of westernizing. Women were going to the university. People were getting it. So when we cut the legs out from under an oppressive gov’t they had something to fall back on.
Here, they don’t. What’s really bad is that, historically, they actually did the best under communism. At least then they had a strong central gov’t. They have NO frame of reference for what we’re offering.
The people have been deliberately kept illiterate by their religions leaders who chose to teach *their* corrupt, distorted version of the Koran. (As bad as it really is, what they teach is beyond insane.)
The Taliban really has lost most of it’s hold over there. This is why they’re reduced to road-side and suicide bombings. They don’t have the resources to fight. The locals are being swayed and are cooperating. The absolute evil that was the Taliban has been pushed back.
The BIGGEST problem we have with establishing a good central goverment over there is corruption. Corruption, bribes, blackmail... those are at the ROOT of their entire system. Nothing gets done without a bribe. It’s ingrained and accepted. Helping to form an honest government with a lying, corrupt people is really difficult.
It’s like taking in two foster kids. (Iraq and Afghanistan) One was raised until the age of 9 in a loving home then was thrown into an abusive foster home. The other has spent their entire lives being abused and has never had a moment when they weren’t trying to just survive. Which kid will you have the best luck reforming?
My husband told me that Washington has much less influence over there than we would imagine. They military is there to get a job done and everybody is on the same page.
You have no idea how brilliant and educated our officers and senior NCO’s are. Each and every one of them (that’s over there) has studied this country inside and out. They know more about the history, politics, culture, and psychology of these people than the people themselves do. (Before deploying, my husband was given a list of over a hundred books on Afghanistan to read and study. He has gotten through all but twelve.) We need to trust them completely and stay out of their way.
What they’re most afraid of is that Washington will pull the rug out from under their efforts too soon. Realistically, we need another four or five years to turn the Titanic.
At the same time, the troops are exhausted. They feel the fatigue more than any of us. If we say, “hey, we just can’t afford this any more,” and bring them home, I think that they’ll come quietly, but they’ll be dispirited. I know that my husband will be pissed for life if we leave too soon and he has to watch this country degrade back to where it was. (I don’t think he’d ever get over that.)
I mean, what was the point of all the sacrifice, hard work and death if we give up before the job is done?
God bless you and your husband. I just wish more Americans, our CIC in particular had the clarity you have. My concern is that our leaders and large numbers of our citizens are anxious to retreat, many actually support the Taliban. If what happened with Vietnam is about to happen in Afghanistan, I’d want our troops out rather than waste their lives.
The Taliban mind set is taking over the “Arab spring” and poses a critical danger to the entire world. We cannot curl up behind our borders and take a Ron Paul approach. One glance at our economy and its supply chains serves to show just how dependent our very survival is on international trade. The 7th century mind set of islamists would bring much of that down. Just how much trade are we doing with Iran, for instance.
Again, God bless.
"I mean, what was the point of all the sacrifice, hard work and death if we give up before the job is done?"
The lost lives and limbs has kept those barbarians from another 9/11 for all these years. That alone is worth the sacrifice.
I'm sorry Dear Lady, but I just don't believe they will ever want Western ways, same as the so-called Palistians who once had jobs and a future in Israel until they decided to increase their cafe/bus/event bombings. They simply cannot comprehend what's being offered to them. Would you have us continue this for another 10 years? Or 8? Or 6? They are too tribal and don't want our way of life.
Dear Marie, As a very proud Marine mom, I feel your pain and frustration. I was hoping that Petraeus in his respected position and recent recommendation to listen to the boots would bring about a smoother running joint operation. Like Nam (my brother died there), the danger is in DC. There is a good book out called “This Time We Win: Revisiting the Tet Offensive” which is about “losing” there because of Congress defunding the war. THAT is the only reason we will not succeed.
This war is a spiritual war and no American who was wounded or Killed or served in any capacity will ever be forgotten for they fight the enemies of the One True God of Israel and the King of Kings. Israels enemies are God’s enemies.
Do not cry because of the spewing from the mouths of the weak and blind. They see what they want to see.
Gen. Allen is right in putting more boots on the PAK border to shut down what I call the “terrorist trail” into Afghanistan. And the guys around Sangin are doing a wonderful job out there but we don’t hear that in the MSM.
Whether we lose one or one hundred, the pain is there and each one is precious. Prayers for those wounded physically and internally, for the families of our lost and for the families of our allies and the 2 children also killed.
Prayers for the Australian families who lost loved ones, too, and for the brothers-in-arms who face this additional tragedy.
I am a member of a couple of Marine parent groups and we all support each other. Do not let anyone, anyone, veteran or active, get you down. God Bless your family and let me know if you want me to add your hubby to my prayer list. There are millions of us praying daily. By the way - Free Republic has a daily call to prayer for our American Heroes. It is good (under Religion.)
I spent the lion's share of the last ten years in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I could write a book on pretty much every paragraph you wrote in post 19. I've been to almost everywhere we had a footprint in Iraq, and almost all of RC-E in Afghanistan. I spent most of my time traveling to small FOBs, teaching, or advising senior leadership in my discipline, so I saw things from a variety of angles, in a number of locations.
We're very good at the little things. Individual tasks. Collective tasks. Using technology to adapt to problems. Year after year, we modify our vehicles to react to threats. CIED jamming becomes more complex to react to threats. The old intelligence cycle moves into F3EAD to react to threats. Multimillion dollar weapons, comms packages or supporting systems are tested, evaluated and adjusted.
Cultural understanding, that rare, delicate thing, is built years too late, by people who are then rotated into different jobs based off of what their career progression dictates. It's a new war every 12 months and hopefully your predecessor took good notes.
In other words, we keep very busy at the day-to-day of military operations, but we're so deep in our lanes we have missed the larger point of warfare itself. Getting our way. Breaking your opponent's ability to resist is not a substitute for breaking their will. When you wonder how it is Iraq and Afghanistan are ending like Vietnam and not like Japan and Germany, here's why:
- In Iraq, we did not change the basic narrative of the culture.
- In Afghanistan, we did not change the basic narrative of their culture.
Any major war the U.S. has ever fought was won or lost based off of that consideration. How is it that post-WWI Germany and post-WWII Germany wound up so differently? Or Mexico. Or Panama. Or the Philippines. Or the Sioux.
We have noble goals and the ability to enforce them, but not the will.
As far as the U.S. military is concerned, Afghanistan is not a war, it's a live-fire JRTC rotation. A set of tasks to be performed in accordance with set standards and conditions. Every unit that rotates in wants to do a good job, compared to the unit that is leaving and the one that is rotating in after them.
Individual Army units performing magnificently doesn't challenge the basic premise of Afghan society, which is, "Powerful enemies invade us, but we endure and drive them out."
Our aims are limited to good metrics. Their aims are to resist us physically and culturally until we leave.
That's not just the Taliban who resists us. That's the whole population. Even the ones that smile at your few words of Dari and drink tea with you don't really want you in their country. They resist quietly, because they expect to wake up one day and hear that you have packed up and gone home.
Anyway, we did do some good while we were there. A lot of bad individuals and groups were taken down, and that's never a bad thing. But it was always destined to end like this.
And what would probably energize the troops the most would be if they knew they had an American public that supported them.
It's disgusting how the MSM has fooled the public into thinking this is a pointless war. Shameful.
The fury I felt during the Bush years when the MSM attacked Bush and the WOT day after day after day knew no bounds. Well, the media got what they wanted...a public which has forgotten why it went to war. The pictures of the WTC falling have all but disappeared from our TV screens and very little information is given about other atrocities the terrorists have committed.
I lived in that backward region of the world for years and I know that what the US is doing is worthwhile. People complain about the stone age those people live in, yet they don't want to do what it takes to advance them and bring them closer to the modern age. Did they think an advance would take place in a couple of years. Really?
Tough goals mean tough fights. I'm amazed how this thread shows so many Freepers as having swallowed the MSM Koolaid.
God bless your family, Marie. You have the exact right perspective. God bless your husband and thanks for hanging in there.
Well said-—Semper Fi
I really appreciate your post and learned much from it. God bless your husband and God bless you.
I think this is evermore the problem of fighting a war; the politicians sandbagging the military.
Has your husband said if things have been different -— better or worse -— since General Petraeus was relieved of command?
Bless You, Marie, and Your Dear Husband.
There is a daily thread that Prays for Our American Heroes and Our Nation. We also pray for the families.
Would you like a daily ping?
I am therefore very sorry as I realize that the efforts of your husband and the other U.S. servicemen and women are likely in vain. The reason is that Afghanistan has been controlled by the religion of Islam for centuries, and as such has a long history of violence and strife, with no tradition of democracy and the freedoms we take for granted.
Having lived in the Muslim world, I realize that many of the common people want only to live their lives in peace, and to have a chance to get ahead. However, what we in the West do not understand is that, with Islam, the most radical factions often end up in control. The reason is that they can claim to be the true and authentic expression of Islam. And the more radical and violent they become, the more they solidify their power as more moderate voices are silenced. If they do not remain silent, they are dragged from their homes in the night. It happened around us.
Thus, your husband has doubtlessly met and worked with many Afghans who earnestly desire peace. And it is heartbreaking to realize that their hopes will never be realized, for when the foreigners (American military) leave, the country will revert to warring factions slaughtering each other until one gains the supremacy.
Few people know that in the 1950's and 60's there was a concerted effort to Westernize Helmond province in Afghanistan. Huge amounts of money was spent to build an infrastructure of roads, bridges, modern homes, schools, libraries - everything needed to foster a democratic revolution in the country. The story is told here:
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14411.html
The period photos show Afghan men and women dressed in fashionable Western attire posing in libraries, going to the cinema, and working as engineers and in modern radio studios.
In the end it was a dismal failure; today almost nothing remains of all the money spent trying to "modernize" Afghanistan. Helmond province is today just as backward as any other province of the country - you can scarcely see any lingering effects of the well-meaning - and costly - cultural experiment.
The reason is we failed to grasp the hold that Islam has over the country; an iron grasp which rejects all attempts to introduce "Western progress." While many of the common people are thankful for Western aid, once again, their leaders would prefer to live in the middle ages than accept what they consider infidel Western values.
You acknowledge, correctly, that the problems run very deep. What perhaps you will one day come to realize is that the problems are so deep as to be impossible to address without a fundamental restructuring of how people think - which would require challenging the authority that Islam holds over their lives. This is something that the U.S. under both George "Islam is a religion of peace" Bush and Obama has been loath to do. We have even permitted an Islamic constitution (sans Western freedoms of religion, etc.) to be instituted in Afghanistan. What hope can we then have of bringing true change to the country?
All the best, and once again, my heartfelt thanks and appreciation for your husband's service to his country.
I mean, what was the point of all the sacrifice, hard work and death if we give up before the job is done?
‘commander zero’ has already told the taliban that we will be pulling out next year.