Posted on 10/19/2011 8:01:44 PM PDT by Clairity
In other words he hadn't thought of it before and he's making this stuff up as he goes along. Obviously, 9-9-9 is not a serious program.
This is the point I was making. The scoring does account for poverty grants, however the mechanism for achieving them is not presented. So when Herman says he will be releasing more details, it does not mean he is backtracking.
Any plan starts with a strategy, then uppper level tactics and then more detailed tactics at decending levels.
Herman has not presented the detailed tactics at this point. Actually I would prefer they be developed at a later date by the people who will actually have to impliment them; as long as the overall strategy and major tactical components are adhered to.
Thank you for posting the link. It is something I have not mastered yet.
ROFLOL!!!
“how exactly do you exempt anyone from sales taxes?”
It’s been years since I paid any attention to the Forbes plan. My point is simple. Any tax that excludes any segment of society is ripe for abuse by Congress. Looking at the pressure Cain has taken, it will be interesting to see what Perry adds to the Forbes plan he is dragging up. I’ve always leaned towards a flat tax, but after studying Cain’s plan, I see the wisdom in it, and also the savings. It’s too bad these ideas have to come up in elections where Perry supporters are determined to destroy Cain, and Cain’s supporters are determined to destroy Perry. The outcome will the demise of good ideas, and we will probably never see either one. The only people who will be pleased with that are the ones who benefit from the status quo and our corrupt system.
Dittos to that.
I've always liked the Forbes/Dick Armey flat-tax plans, and I think I still like them better than 9-9-9.
But 9-9-9 is a good idea and it is a HUGE improvement over the status quo, and I give Cain a lot of credit for pushing it.
If Cain ends up being the nominee I am not going to feel bad.
I oppose that ridiculous idea with every fiber of my being, you are really conducting social engineering on a grand scale when everyone is getting checks from the government. You will have politicians in the D party saying they will raise the prebates for the poor and middle class and the greedy Republicans won’t.
The thing ia not to send the money you do not owe to DC in the first place.
I will never call myself a Republican if that is what they want.
The other option is to give every head of household a tax credit on their income-tax return for the amount they paid in sales tax on spending at the poverty level (e.g., $900 for a family of four). This would work while we have a 9-9-9 plan (where there’s a 9% income tax), but not once we eliminate the income tax altogether.
If eliminating the income tax means that we have to establish a prebate system so that the sales tax isn’t regressive (and thus acceptable to the public), then I’ll take it. The possibility of Congress playing with the numbers so as to increase the prebate pales in comparison to its despotic power to raise taxes and otherwise tinker with the tax code.
Any prebate is a bad idea.
The prebate is what makes the Fairtax work as far as I can see, Do you really want somebody living on less than $20K a year or so paying 20% of that in consumption taxes? If you say yes then I guess I am wrong, but if you say no, then by giving everybody the same “credit” makes it an equal burden across the board, pretty much the same as if you thought making them pay the 20% tax when making less than $20K annual income... (or whatever the poverty level number is)
No I dont really want to send money to Washington and get it back later, That is why I try to have it figured out so I owe some small amount every April 15th... AND I wait until the 15th to send it in too! I dont want them having a tax free loan, BUT I am in a minority there too... Not that it makes a whole lot of difference, but seems like the Prebate would be opposite though, They are giving you that credit before spending the money... The other thing is... like I mentioned before, most every american already waits for their refund check sometime beteen the first of the year and about a month after April 15th... Many of which the check is much more than the taxes they had withheld... What would really be the difference be between the prebate and an annual tax refund? Mainly so far as I can see, the prebate would be a fractional amount in comparison with (NO EIC) and exactly the same for every single person, every married couple, every married couple with 1 child etc... I dont really see it as anything more than a card with that calculated amount on it, Whatever the tax amount is going to be on your necessities to the poverty level. Actually I think it should only be able to be used for the tax part of what they are considering your necessities, but dont really know how it will be structured. You know it would not be that hard... when the food stamp people total up their amount they slide a card for that then automatically the register knows the cash amount left for their liquor and cigarettes...
The prebate is what makes the Fairtax work as far as I can see, Do you really want somebody living on less than $20K a year or so paying 20% of that in consumption taxes? If you say yes then I guess I am wrong, but if you say no, then by giving everybody the same “credit” makes it an equal burden across the board, pretty much the same as if you thought making them pay the 20% tax when making less than $20K annual income... (or whatever the poverty level number is)
No I dont really want to send money to Washington and get it back later, That is why I try to have it figured out so I owe some small amount every April 15th... AND I wait until the 15th to send it in too! I dont want them having a tax free loan, BUT I am in a minority there too... Not that it makes a whole lot of difference, but seems like the Prebate would be opposite though, They are giving you that credit before spending the money... The other thing is... like I mentioned before, most every american already waits for their refund check sometime beteen the first of the year and about a month after April 15th... Many of which the check is much more than the taxes they had withheld... What would really be the difference be between the prebate and an annual tax refund? Mainly so far as I can see, the prebate would be a fractional amount in comparison with (NO EIC) and exactly the same for every single person, every married couple, every married couple with 1 child etc... I dont really see it as anything more than a card with that calculated amount on it, Whatever the tax amount is going to be on your necessities to the poverty level. Actually I think it should only be able to be used for the tax part of what they are considering your necessities, but dont really know how it will be structured. You know it would not be that hard... when the food stamp people total up their amount they slide a card for that then automatically the register knows the cash amount left for their liquor and cigarettes...
prebate is a stupid idea. politically too, imagine the next campaign where the Democrat proposes to raise the prebates while the greedy, heartless Republicans say no.
plus, sending money to DC that you don’t owe is stupid.
plus, why shouldn’t the “poor” pay the sales taxes? They pay state and local sales taxes right now and get none of it back.
They should pay their fair share too.
The whole fairtax plan is going to be a constitutional amendment... It will take 2/3’s of states ratifying any changes once implemented... Congress could not just raise the rate or the prebate amount without getting it past 2/3 of the states. That is a little more difficult, There has only been 3 constitutional amendments ratified in my 46 year lifetime. That is the biggest arguement I hear about the fairtax, that rates will just get raised continually... It is designed so that CANT happen.
The Poor should pay the sales taxes and will under the fairtax, that is the whole point of broadening the base and giving them skin in the game. The poor still buy other stuff, besides necessities... More Poor people have alot nicer stuff than I do and the many I know that are considered poor is because they are in debt...
Wondering where you stand, are you saying we have a current tax code that good now? or that the 9million words could be slightly tweaked to be workable? How about the IRS, Do they wield too much power and enforce that power selectively or equally across the board?
I think pretty much everybody is in agreement that no american should be taxed on necessities of life, that to me is very similar to mandating I buy health insurance... and the prebate provides for avoiding exactly that... I dont see what is so complex or inherently bad as you say, Dont know what else to say, because it’s obvious that your mind is set on this issue, and sounds like it is the dealbreaker for you on a plan that I believe would revive america, but I would love to hear any ideas you have that would accomplish something remotely close to what the fairtax would.
I’d rather do a flat tax. No idiotic prebates and no Constitutional amendment or new tax system required.
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