In fifth debate, Perry Finally shows up

The Washington Examiner ^ | 10/19/11 | Byron York

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

In previous debates, the adviser explained, Perry had tried to abide by time limits, leading some observers to say he seemed passive and withdrawn. Perry intended to make sure that didn't happen in Las Vegas.

It didn't. The Las Vegas debate was Perry's fifth, but the first one in which Perry really showed up to play. That doesn't mean he won, doesn't mean he was particularly likable, doesn't mean he always had cogent answers. But it does mean that Perry, on the verge of being completely written off as a candidate, gave himself a chance to get back in the game.

And Perry, for the first time in any GOP debate, rattled former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. He did it by bringing up a 2007 charge that Romney hired illegal immigrants to do lawn work at his Massachusetts home. Jobs are the magnet for illegal immigrants, Perry said. "And Mitt, you lose all of your standing, from my perspective, because you hired illegals in your home and you knew about it for a year. And the idea that you stand here before us and talk about that you're strong on immigration is on its face the height of hypocrisy."

Romney tried to laugh it off and to deny the story. "I don't think I've ever hired an illegal in my life," he said. Romney tried to explain, but Perry kept pushing, leaving Romney protesting that Perry was ignoring the rules -- just as Perry had planned.

"I'm speaking," Romney said. "I'm speaking, I'm speaking, I'm speaking. You get 30 seconds. This is the way the rules work here…Anderson?"

By the time Romney appealed to CNN moderator Anderson Cooper for help, Romney seemed flustered, almost frantic. "Would you please wait?" he said to Perry. "Are you just going to keep talking?"

[fatima]

Your right,Fellow Freepers, Please donate to Freerepublic and help us go forward.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2794768/posts

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Cain also was exposed as a flip-flopper, and has put his foot in his mouth repeatedly, yet very little is being said about it. Not to mention the silence from Cain and Bachmann in regards to going after Romney. It’s almost like they are competing for the VP spot, in hopes Romney will invite them to join his rotten campaign.

[jgge]

None of these men lost because of the debates despite the media telling you this BS.

Kennedy won because the media made him the young, energetic, prince with his camlot family. Has nothing to do with the debates.

Ford lost because of Watergate and people did not want to elect a Republican President in 1976. The Poland is not part of Warsaw comments has nothing to do with his defeat.

George H W Bush did not lose the elections in 1992 because he looked at his watch. Bill Clinton was this young energetic guy and the media sold him as they did to JFK before him and Obama after him.

As I said before a candidate lose or win the elections long before the debates that occur few weeks before the elections.

[Grey Eagle]

Polling this early in the campaign are useless as you well know. It also depends on what organization is doing the polling. Lots of disinformation is being put out to help Obama. Is that your role?

[montag813]

I’m still waiting for Cain to lay one punch on Romney. He’s been in the race even longer then Perry so what’s his excuse.

Why should he bother? If things continue go the way they have, Cain will obliterate Romney in every single primary outside of the Northeast.

[alicewonders]

Nope. But I heard Bill O’Reilly say that he manipulated a poll on his show by throwing out the Cain and Paul votes to declare Romney the winner. I have heard Frank Luntz say that he gets “rough” with the people in his focus group if they don’t talk to him when the camera is on. I have no doubt that he manipulates - that’s the way most polling is done.

I can see with my own eyes that FOX is in the tank for Romney. Most other people here can see it as well.

[montag813]

Notice that Perry supporters are not trashing Cain. To bad that Cain supporters can’t have the same courtesy.

Not a Cain supporter, but increasingly an admirer. I hated all of these 7 dwarfs a month ago. Now it seems no one more serious will join the race and we're stuck with them. So be it. Satan would be better than Mittens, so he's out. Perry has been atrocious (and occaisonally insulting) on immigration so far, although he has time to recover. Cain is unflappable, and that impresses me. Piers Morgan started out tonight trying to bash Cain, and after 20 minutes was eating out of Herman's hand. that is the kind of cool that can beat Obama. Not convinced anyone else can.

[Grey Eagle]

You know Perry and Bush are nothing alike. Perry would be able to hold his own with obama and his teleprompter. Just say no teleprompter for the debates.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

What is really stupid beyond belief, is the fact that you are defending Romney on this Forum.

The whole point of Perry bringing it up, was to expose Romney for the hypocritical liar that he has always been. From Romneycare to Lawncare, Romney has been parading around on his typical high horse, pointing fingers at everyone else but himself.

Instead, you pick on Perry for having the courage to go after his royal appointed wonderfulness, scumbag Romney!

[Grunthor]

You know what, I’ve seen almost every candidate running on Fox several times over EXCEPT Romney and come to think of it, Perry.

[Yosemitest]

Check this out.

Perry loses cool in Vegas as Cain wins GOP debate 3400 to 999

Michael A. DeVine, Atlanta Law & Politics Examiner
October 18, 2011



Garden-gate attack on Mitt Romney and inappropriate show of temper may make Rick Perry wish his performance could have stayed in Vegas by the time the next polls are conducted.

But Herman Cain heartened anti-Romney conservative hearts by offering a blockbuster alternative to RomneyCare and/or ObamaCare with a call for interstate competition in the health care industry.


Bay State Garden-gate

Perry's attack on old stories about Mitt Romney's alleged hiring of illegals shocked this conservative out of my chair more than any electrified border fence could.
The Texas Governor referred to an old story about a landscaping company that Romney had hired that was discovered to have illegal workers employed.

There was no evidence that Romney knew the status of all employees of the company and he fired the company after discovering that it had broken the law.
Romney was never charged with violating any law.

Perry, who famously questioned the condition of conservative hearts that oppose in-state tuition for illegals,
indicts Romney for hiring the mothers of illegals to earn the money to pay the tuition?
Was Romney indicted for breaking employment or immigration laws?

Perry temperament problem

For this viewer, Perry's show of temper spoke for itself.
I doubt his jobs plan can overcome what was seen of Perry's temperament tonight in Las Vegas that seems inappropriate to the presidency to this Republican.
But temperament isn't everything.
Witness what cool got is in President Barack Obama's policies.
But before Perry gets to be compared with Obama, he has to best the cool customers named Cain and Romney,
and on that score I suspect his garden-gate attack makes his quest for the nomination futile.

9-9-9 no VAT

On a brighter note for conservatives, Herman Cain and his 9-9-9 Plan continued to be the target
and he refuted the attacks on the sales tax element as equivalent to a European-style VAT tax that is easily hidden
by pointing out that double-digit corporate, income, FICA, and capital gains taxes are all embedded in product prices today.

Cain's plan would eliminate capital gains and FICA taxes while drastically reducing income taxes while only adding back a 9% sales tax on new goods.
Clearly his plan would embed much less cost in products and services than under current law.
The reduction in taxes in this way would be a boon for exports and the creation of jobs generally due to the reduced cost of production and other factors.

Cain was less effective in defending attacks from Mitt Romney that lower income workers and the unemployed would be hurt by the sales tax.
Yes, the bushel of oranges, federal taxes now levied, hurt those same groups now;
but Cain needs to do a better job in explaining how his reduction of the oranges to but three
helps all groups more than the regressivity of the sales tax hurts,
especially when applied in states that raise most of their money through state sales taxes.

3400 + 9-9-9 = Cain leaves Vegas still the frontrunner

Cain also found his voice on health care by being the first candidate to endorse a specific replacement for ObamaCare in the debate
by backing H.R. 3400, which, among other things, ends state monopolies on the sale of health insurance.
This is probably the best single act that government could take to lower heath care and insurance premium costs.

Perry would have been better off simply accepting the mantle as the compassionate on illegals conservative.
His stand on in-state tuition was not the reason he comes in 3rd or 4th in polls.
His problem has been debate performances and incompetence in defending his record and positions on the issues.
I suspect that not only will his personal attack on Mitt Romney's hiring of a landscaping company not help
the Governor of the Lone Star State on the issue of illegal immigration but may also have revealed a temperament inappropriate for the presidency in its aftermath.

Time will tell, but for this Rooster poised to vote from his Stone Mountain of Georgia roost come Super Tuesday 2012,
the race is now down to three:
I lean to Cain.
Still considering Newt and Mitt.

Mike DeVine
Editor - Hillbilly Politics
Co-Founder and Editor - Political Daily
Atlanta Law & Politics columnist – Examiner.com


“One man with courage makes a majority.” – Andrew Jackson


More DeVine Gamecock rooster crowings at Modern Conservative, Unified Patriots, and Conservative Outlooks.
All Charlotte Observer and Atlanta Journal-Constitution op-eds archived at Townhall.com.

[alicewonders]

I’ve seen Perry only once - but O’Reilly says he is having him on the show this Tuesday - after Perry unveils his economic plan.

You are right though - you NEVER see Romney on there. I think they are trying to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest or something. That sounds crazy, but there is no doubt that Romney is touted as the “one” that can beat Obama over-whelmingly by the FOX pundits.

Come to think of it - I never see Romney on any shows on any channel.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Hannity loves Romney. Why else did BOR just endorse Cain? To stir up more controversy. Every hack on FOX is a Romney lover and in part, the reason Beck left FOX.

I can no longer even watch 5 minutes of FOX, other than their business news channel, but even that is getting sickening. Bloomberg gives the stocks report in a much better format without all the political innuendo.

[JoenTX]

“Perry is a true conservative, unlike your candidate....”

Just...just stop it. No he’s not. Saying it over and over will not make it so.

I consider myself to the right of Perry and I had to vote against him in 2002 when his Dem opponent was actually more truly “conservative” than he. And his opponent was a 2nd Amendment touting, GWB backing, oilfield businessman of old Spanish heritage. And he was the last really decent opponent that Perry has had in his tenure....the rest being hacks and corpses.

All Perry has had to do to keep his seat is to sit in Austin
wearing his drool bib and be careful not to break any of the pricey furnishings in the Governor’s residence. He’s proven he can do that, I’ll give him his due......

[Wild Irish Rogue]

” For Perry to give anything to illegals is stupid. “

The Texas legislature in 2001 passed a veto proof law allowing a small percentage of the children of illegals
to pay in state tuition.
Perry is getting the blame for the Texas legislature.
The point Perry was making was that Romney on a small scale ,
is indicative of the larger problem of employers knowingly
hiring illegals.
The Boston Globe reported in 2006 that Romney was warned about the Guatemalan gardeners and still kept them on.

“Buenos dias!” — Mitt Romney’s regular greeting to the illegal Guatemalan immigrants who work on his lawn

“Aw, geez.” — Romney to a reporter who asked him about the lawn workers. He then walked away.

I wish Perry had asked Romney why he can’t mow his own lawn.

[bwc2221]

“Perry is a true conservative”

You may believe that if you say something enough times it becomes true, but don’t go up on the roof of a 10 story building saying, “I can fly, I can fly ....”

[TwoSwords]

I didn’t defend romney. I didn’t defend romney’s use of a lawncare co. that uses illegals. I pointed out that it was just the most pointless political attack against a opponent’s serious weakness that I’ve ever seen to defend one’s self against a similiar weakness.
This didn’t expose romney it just ingratiated romney to all the people and corportations that pay for their lawncare and know that they use illegals.
It was stupid as was your comment to me.

[altura]

I agree with you and you may know that Romney has opened up a big attack on Perry today by sending out a video with Perry ‘goofs’ on it.

Romney is too savvy a politician to do this based just on a personal animosity for Perry.

He obviously thinks the Perry is still the man to beat in spite of a lot of sentiment around here for Cain.

Romney’s not worried about Cain. He either plans to take him on as veep or he thinks he doesn’t have a chance.

I agree with Romney, Perry is the big threat to him.

And those people who say we are jeopardizing the race by not just jumping on board with Cain are a joke.

That’s like a democrat saying let’s compromise.

[bwc2221]

“Polling this early in the campaign are useless as you well know.”

I agree it's early, but when you are running at 40% as Perry was in Florida and after you visit it, give a few speeches and after the people get to know you and suddenly you're trailing Michele Bachmann, that's not a good sign.

[JoenTX]

“Kennedy won because the media made him the young, energetic, prince with his camlot family. Has nothing to do with the debates.

Ford lost because of Watergate and people did not want to elect a Republican President in 1976. The Poland is not part of Warsaw comments has nothing to do with his defeat.

George H W Bush did not lose the elections in 1992 because he looked at his watch. Bill Clinton was this young energetic guy and the media sold him as they did to JFK before him and Obama after him....”

Um....bullsh!t.

The very famous 1960 Kenneday/Nixon debate is renown. Kennedy, who took make-up and prep for the television appearance, looked better for the TV audience. Nixon, who refused both, appeared pasty and unnerved by the medium. I’ve watched the debate and the difference is notable. Kennedy appeared ready for and comfortable with the new age medium while Nixon appeared not to be. For an electorate evenly split, that appeared enough (along with the mob in Chicago) to get him the Presidency.

In 1976, Ford stood before the American people on national TV and said the WARPAC did not exist. That the Soviet Union had no control over the satellite states of Eastern Europe. Something so obviously incorrect and incoherent that it was not able to be explained away. Only Gerald Ford in a debate with Jimmy Carter in 1976 could have made Jimmy Carter an obvious winner. The public had no problem electing a Republican. They had a big problem electing a Republican who seemed to have no grasp of the previous 30 years of geo-political history. It killed Ford.

1992? I have Bush’s “wrist check” imprinted in my brain to this day. It was an incredibly bad moment of political theater. In a reelection, in the midst of a (today) mild recession, Bush Sr appeared disconnected and distracted on national TV. Irregardless of how you feel about him or that election or anything else............that is how he “appeared” to the vast middle unwashed independent voters who decided that election. Thus he lost.

Appearance and perception are huge. When a person, right or left, can take the controlling ground in that battle and hold it...they win. Electoral politics in the 21st Century is no different than ardent infantry warfare in the 1700s.

We keep looking for a Reagan. A “Reagan” is a once in a lifetime thing. The rest of the time we are stuck with and glad to have a lesser option who won’t embarrass themselves in the process. We are in the “he who embarrasses himself least” mode and there’s nothing wrong with that. Many Americans before us have had to work with much less than we have today. Presidential elections do not always mean that the cream of the crop rises. More often than not, during POTUS, we have to determine who the lesser the crook is and vote accordingly.