Posted on 10/18/2011 3:59:44 PM PDT by mdittmar
The first detailed analysis of Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan found that it would cut taxes for Americans making $200,000 or more a year and raise taxes for those making less than $200,000 a year.
The analysis was released today by the independent Tax Policy Center, a joint venture by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute.
Cain's 9-9-9 plan, which would institute a flat 9 percent business, individual and national sales tax, has been credited for catapulting the former Godfather's Pizza CEO to the top of the Republican race.
The Tax Policy Center found that if the plan were instituted, those making more than $1 million would receive a $455,000 (15 percent) tax break, while those making $20,000 to $30,000 would see a $3,800 (15 percent) tax increase.
Derek Thompson of The Atlantic put together a graph with the information from the Tax Policy Center. It shows the percentage change on effective tax rate by annual income:
A millionaire makes one million or more in income, dividends and short term capital gains. I would tax at 10% or 15% as a compromise between the original income tax (IIRC about 7%) and what it is now (maybe 20% or 30% effective tax).
You do know that Cain is not currently a member of the House or the Senate, so how does he submit legislation?
You would tax gains on investments? Why? The invested money has already been taxed.
Depends on whether the taxes are on wages or on other forms of income. If a business has no tax (the way it should be IMO), then the dividends from that business should be taxed as income. Gains on investments are not really income but should have a low tax applied anyway.
Same reason that they automatically reduce prices when their costs decrease: competition.
"I call on the Super Committee to pass the Phase 1 Enhanced Plan along with their spending cut package"Cain's PLAN calls for the supercommittee to pass Phase 1 Enhanced (the 9-9-9 plan) with their spending cut package.
In order for them to "pass" the plan (which I assume he means include it in their package, because they don't actually "pass" the bill) they would need the plan.
In order for them to get the plan, either Cain has to SEND them a legislative version that they can include, or Cain has to ask them to write his legislation for him.
If Cain does nothing to get the supercommittee to "pass" his plan, then they obviously won't.
Have you seen any indication that the supercommittee is considering his 9-9-9 plan? Or that he has bugged them about it, or written the legislation to give to them?
My guess is that this part of his proposal will just disappear from his web site, and he'll pretend he never asked the supercommittee to pass it.
This isn't the only job he gave to the supercommittee:
• The Super Committee must deliver a robust growth solution • America can’t wait for 2012, we need growth NOW.It is clear that when he published his economic plan, he intended it to get implemented NOW, before he was President. But he hasn't been talking about that lately, so like I said, it looks like that part of his plan is going to just be forgotten.
I've seen no evidence that was his intent or expectations. He's smart enough to know that an appointed committee that has been charged with reducing the deficit is not going to consider a 999 Plan when it's expected to report in less than a month. He has said he would like to see the plan implemented, but he is aware that a major change like that could not even begin until he is in office.
I don’t know how you can say you’ve seen no evidence. I provided you a direct link to Cain’s plan on the Herman Cain website, which SAYS what I’m telling you.
So THAT is the evidence. It’s in his plan. His plan says that the 9-9-9 proposal needs to be passed by the supercommittee, and the supercommittee finishes it’s work next month. So the plan must be passed by next month.
And you are right, he should KNOW that they won’t do that. But his plan CALLED for them to do that.
Which gets us to my very argument — that since Cain PROPOSED that a supercommittee do something that it clearly won’t do, and CAIN is doing nothing to try to get them to do it, and it is supposed to be the implementation of his plan, it seems Cain is not all that serious about his plan.
That was my argument — Cain has a plan, supposedly serious. In his proposal, he says he will implement the plan by getting the supercommittee to pass it, but he has done nothing to make that happen, so his plan will not be implemented.
Of course, I suspect he’ll just ignore he ever said that, and move on. But I just accessed that information today, so as of 10/19/2011, the Herman Cain website still has a PDF of his economic proposal that claims he will get the supercommittee to pass the 9-9-9 plan.
It's true some of those lowers costs will be translated into increased dividends for shareholders, may also be raises for employees, capital investment for physical plant improvement, or even hire more employees. And I guess some corporations could just stuff it in a mattress.
So you are telling me that a corporation will not pass any costs reductions on to reduce prices and thus improve their market share.
Also this is pretty specific its how commerce works, you take raw material you add value to produce a good or service hopefully at a price people want. The cost of that good or service includes taxes. If all other costs factors are constant and taxes are the variable then, taxes go up costs go up, price goes up or you make less, maybe even lay off workers to try to maintain market competitiveness. Taxes go down costs go down, price goes down you grab more market share, maybe you make more, and you hire more workers, maybe again as I said before you give raises pay dividends or a combination of the above. (Usually the case in a successful business!) I detect a hint of “corporations are evil” in the written tone of your statement. I contend they are neither good or bad. Again this is pretty specific, this is how we operate or try to within the confines of current 70,000 page IRS monstrosity. (and no I am not a business owner, just a worker guy, but I watch & draw conclusions from what I see. Also this is as specific as I get! Anymore would reveal who I work for, what I do, and maybe who I am. I don't do that on-line!)
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What I am saying is that no corporation will automatically reduce the price of goods or services to the consumer in reaction to a decrease in cost of those goods or services to the corporation.
Case in point - Nike - they used to manufacture Air Jordans in Korea and Japan then moved to China to reduce costs then moved to Indonesia and Viet Nam to reduce costs yet the cost to the consumer has consistently risen and has never gone down to reflect the reduced cost.
Your argument in support of 999 relies on the civic goodwill of corporations, a reliance that is, I suggest, mis-placed.
Nope you’re wrong I never claimed that corporations are altruistic organizations. Also I said corporations might take the cost reductions and apply them toward dividends, raises, & capital improvements. Maybe Nike does that. Nike obviously feels it has market share no matter what it charges. Nice position to be in. It may not last. In the business I have been involved in things are much more competitive you would never be able to treat the marketplace so cavalierly.
I am glad you are happy with the current tax system.
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Oh, I either buy 999, which is a non-starter, or I am "happy" with the status quo...
I see that you are one of those freepers...
Have a nice day.
Actually if we can't stop spending it doesn't matter what we do tax-wise. The primary problem is still entitlements, not defense, not government salaries, not earmarks, or “plus-ups” but entitlements. It killing Europe, and that is our future if we don't stop spending.
I already had the link to his web site. What I want to see is where he says he wants to submit the plan to the legislature, which is what you said in an earlier post. I couldn't find that quote, so I was asking you for it.
I didn’t say he said he wants to submit it to the legislature.
I said his plan was to have it passed by the supercommittee.
I made the logical deduction that in order to have it passed by the supercommittee, he would have to write it in legislative form and submit it to them for consideration.
I also noted that he could instead simply hope they read his plan and wrote it into legislation for him, but that was unlikely to happen.
And I noted that he was doing nothing to make that part of his plan happen. I don’t think he has any intention of writing a legislative version, or submitting it to the supercommittee. He said that in his plan so it would look like he was taking action, but he’s not doing it. Which again makes it look like he’s not serious about his plan.
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