Don’t be VAT stupid (Cain was AGAINST a National Sales Tax last November)

Herman Cain T.H.E New Voice, Inc. ^ | November 21, 2010 | Herman Cain

[Polybius]

There’s one message from the 2010 elections that many so-called policy makers, political elites and analysts did not hear. Namely, the American people are not as uninformed and stupid as they think we are.

President Obama’s Debt Commission and the Bipartisan Policy Center’s Debt Reduction Task Force have both floated its ideas for reducing our nation’s runaway national debt. .....

The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT (value added tax) on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes.

Here are three of the biggest reasons the national retail sales tax is the worst idea on the table.

First, we have a spending problem in Washington, D.C. not a revenue problem. ......

Even worse is reason number two: In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing their national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. ....

For the liberal naysayers who say that would not happen, you lose! Just look at the Social Security system, Medicare and Medicaid. Over the years since their inception, taxes have gone up, benefits have gone down and they are still on a path of insolvency.

Giving the administration and Congress another tool to tax us and confuse us is like giving an alcoholic a key to the liquor store with no supervision, only to discover that he locks the door after he is safely inside.

A national retail sales tax on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today is insane! It gives the out-of-control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country.

People are not stupid. Maybe they will hear us in 2012.

[federal__reserve]

Please put it in context! Cain may have been against national sales tax UNLESS all other taxes were drastically reformed, especially eliminating 15.3% payroll tax on your GROSS paycheck.

[sickoflibs]

RE :”For all of you that have criticized that a VAT is not a National Sales Tax, don’t tell me or tell one of the other posters on this thread.
Tell Cain himself. It was CAIN that called a National Sales Tax a “disguised VAT” in this article.”

Really? This article he wrote in 2010 makes it clear that he does NOT believe a VAT is just a national sales tax which he was calling for then, contrary to your repeated claims:

Cain in 2010: A VAT is not a single new tax. It is several new sneak-a-taxes. It taxes each phase in the development of a product or service until it is ultimately sold to the end user, and you also pay any applicable retail sales taxes. These intermediate taxes are passed along to the consumer and are reflected as a net increase in the price of the goods or service.
The doubly outrageous aspect of the VAT is that it is on top of all the other state and federal taxes we pay. Paul Volcker and the Democrats like the VAT because it is hidden from the clueless and uninformed voter, who will forget about it soon after it is passed if it is passed.
The VAT is also a cowardly tax increase because these same clueless and uninformed voters will easily blame the greedy retailers for raising the prices of their merchandise. And for the 50 percent of the taxpayers who have figured out how not to pay any taxes at all, this administration and Congress will find a way to give them a VAT exemption.....
The answer to reducing the deficit and supercharging the economy is to replace the tax code with the single-rate Fair(single national retail sales ) Tax.
VAT: The cowardly tax April 12, 2010 By Herman Cain (THE New Voice, Inc )

How is Mr "have a heart you mean spirited Republicans" Perry doing? Waiting for illegals to register Republican?

[org.whodat]

Spot on!!!!!!

[sickoflibs]

Cain was for a National Sales tax last year and strongly against a VAT at the same time JUST LIKE NOW. see : #182

Based on this dishonest post we should rule out Perry altogether.

[fightinJAG]

The capital gains tax is eliminated, as is the payroll tax (”Social Security,” FICA) and the death tax.

[fightinJAG]

Oh, and the present income tax structure is eliminated and replaced with a flat rate that everyone pays.

Everyone pays because the present Fedzilla tax code is eliminated and replaced with 999.

[federal__reserve]

Great post, a must read!

[fightinJAG]

I can’t believe you are still hawking the ignorant canard that there is no difference between the NST and a VAT.

Embarrassing.

:O

[TigersEye]

It was CAIN that called a National Sales Tax a “disguised VAT” in this article.

”The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT”

LOL

These two statements are not the same. One is true and one is lame.

One says one thing, one says another. So, all at once, kids, let's say "Oh, brother!"

Thanks for the Sesame Street break from seriousness, Polybius.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I just think that when our nation has been screwed up for maybe 4 years, mostly entirely due to a very liberal democrat takeover of the house and senate, and then an idiot taking over the white house, it is absurd to say we need to throw out our entire way of thinking.

For most of our 200 years, the choices made for President have been adequate. The uniqueness now is that we picked an idiot for President. I don’t think the remedy for that is to pick someone else who has never really been in charge of anything seriously large.

Look, even if I was to believe that the thing we need now is a guy proven to be able to turn around corporations, Cain wouldn’t be the guy I’d pick. He ran one mid-sized pizza chain, for a short period of time. He was given full control, because the parent corporation really wanted the business saved so they could make money. Instead, after 3 years the parent company gave up on the business and sold it at a loss to Cain and his group.

Cain ran it for almost a decade, and in that time their profits increased by much less than the inflation rate, and they went from the 5th-largest pizza chain to the 11th-largest pizza chain. He may have “saved” the company, although it never filed for bankruptcy, and it’s only loss was a year where they got sued and lost. It was certainly a company in a downturn, and he certainly did things to fix it.

On the other hand, what he did to fix it won’t work for our economy. He essentially took out all the non-profitable stores and got rid of excess employees. As a country, we can’t save our economy by destroying unprofitable businesses and shipping our unemployed citizens to other countries to get jobs.

Other than his brief stint in the pizza business, his career wasn’t really an executive running anything large. He headed up a corporate lobbying group for a while, donating to and lobbying politicians for special consideration of the restaurant business. In fact, his complaint about Hillary Clinton’s health care was that it would cost restaurants money.

And he’s been a radio talk show host, which isn’t an executive position at all, but does give you a lot of training in saying exactly what you think people want to hear. I wish all our politicians were as good at talking as Cain, but it’s not executive experience.

I don’t think we are in a unique period of transition. I think Obama TRIED to transition us, and I want a president who will NEGATE that and put us back pretty much where we were. If we had sound leadership, we’d have already weathered the financial crisis, and be growing again.

[TheOldLady]

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[sickoflibs]

I like honest criticism of any candidate including Cain but this is downright sleezy dishonesty,

[fightinJAG]

I think some people are knee-jerking against Cain because he doesn’t meet some supposed checklist for what a President’s resume is supposed to be.

You’re not in the category. As usual, you have a very thoughtful analysis.

I’ve done my own thoughtful analysis and I just don’t agree with you at this time.

We’ll have to see how this develops.

[Polybius]

Eisenhower wasn’t hired because he was a general per se. The country needed someone who could manage the nation’s transition from wartime to peacetime. Ike was the man for the times. .... Maybe political experience is irrelevant, as it was with Ike, because what we need is a POTUS who can manage a historical transition.

Eisenhower worked with "Government" for most of his adult life. As Supreme Allied Commander, Eisenhower not only dealt intimately with the U.S. Government and it's politics but also dealt with multiple foreign Governments as well.

Cain brings little to the table besides red meat Sound Bites and downright embarrassing Sound Bites such as "Uz-beki-beki-stan-stan". Cain will contradict his own position in an instant if it brings radio talk show "Shock Jock" appeal to his intended audience.

See Post 174. Cain simply asked his "economic adviser", a guy with a B.S. in Accounting, for something, anything, "Bold". ...... Even if that something totally contradicted what Cain had previously preached against a National Sales Tax.

In short, "I can sell ice to Eskimos. Dream up something with Jock Shock appeal, no matter what it is, and I can sell it as a $9.99 Special."

Cain was firmly AGAINST a National Sales Tax before he is all FOR it now.

Cain is FOR an Electric Border Fence the day before he is AGAINST it.

Cain was AGAINST killing terrorist Anwar al-Awlaki in May before he is FOR it in October after Anwar al-Awlaki was actually killed.

Cain, May 5, 2011, Regarding the killing of al-Qaeda terrorist Anwar al-Awlaki

Cain, October, 2011, Regarding the killing of al-Qaeda terrorist Anwar al-Awlaki

Cain is nothing more than a radio talk show "Sound Bite Machine" throwing out whatever he believes his audience wants to hear without ever have studied most issues.

Case in point: Israel.

Cain throws out pro-Israel tough talk because conservatives want to hear it but Cain had not even studied the subject deeply enough to know what "Palestinian right of return" meant.

(The "Palestinian right of return" is a term used by the Palestinians to signify the long-held Palestinian demand that ALL DESCENDENTS of 1948 Palestinians had a right to return to Israel which, of course, would mean the automatic death of Israel. That "Poison Pill" has been around for decades.)

Yet, although crucial to understanding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the uniformed Cain first heard the term in a FOX News interview:

"Where do you stand on the right of return?" asked Wallace. ... "The right of return? [pause] The right of return?" asked Cain. ... Wallace then offered more information, "The Palestinian right of return."

After being told it was about Palestinians returning, still clueless about the long and complex history of that Palestinian position, Cain declared he was "for it".

Cain is all red meat and no substance.

VIDEO: Herman Cain thinks Palestinians entitled to right of return

Talk about Cain as President is irrelevant since Cain is not even TRYING to win.

Herman Cain Only Has 'Several Hundred Thousand Dollars' In The Bank .... Compare that to Romney's $14 million or Perry's $18 million

Michael Steele to Herman Cain: Get Off the Book Tour

The winner in all this has been Mitt Romney as Cain has co-opted Romney's conservative opposition before Cain's inevitable bail out to cash in and become the latest very well paid political celebrity on the $100,000 per speech circuit.

Washington Speakers Bureau: Herman Cain, passionate and exceptional leader whose experience has brought him to the pinnacle of both the corporate and political worlds, Herman Cain brings solutions to both businesses—and America’s—most pressing problems.

Herman Cain said Wednesday that he would be unable to support Rick Perry for president if the Texas governor were to eventually win the party's nomination. .... The former businessman said, for instance, that he could support former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney....

[fightinJAG]

Suit yourself.

[fightinJAG]

I responded to your post previously, but was still thinking about it later and had a question for you.

Who do you see who can take the nation forward out of this mess as opposed to some variation of tinkering/kicking the can down the road?

If you convince me as to your position on Cain, then what?

(Please read my previous post to you before responding. Thanks.)

[Nervous Tick]

>> First, to evaluate the plan, first evaluate the plan! Not all the ways in which the PROCESS after the plan is enacted could go wrong.

How the plan is likely to unfold, and what can go wrong, is absolutely fair game — in business, in battle, in politics.

>> Once the plan has been evaluated and understood as proposed, THEN we can talk about potential process problems and whether they are surmountable or insurmountable.

I don’t think you *get* that I *have* evaluated and understand the plan as proposed, and now I’m at the point of evaluating the process and its problems.

>> But claiming the plan “adds on a new tax” when it certainly does not

Oh, we have a federal sales tax now? NO WE DON’T — IT’S A NEW TAX. To claim otherwise is just spin. Cain’s plan ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY adds on a new tax! I realize that the spin is that the AMOUNT won’t increase, but it’s breathtakingly duplicitous to claim that it’s not a NEW TAX.

FRegards

[org.whodat]

Duh, you take away the money, they cannot spend it.

[Polybius]

It was CAIN that called a National Sales Tax a “disguised VAT” in this article. .... Polybius

”The worst idea is a proposed national sales tax, which is a disguised VAT” .... Herman Cain

LOL These two statements are not the same. One is true and one is lame. Thanks for the Sesame Street break from seriousness, Polybius. .....TigersEye

Is that you Bill Clinton?

Are you arguing about what the meaning of "is" is?

[Mr. K]

OH NO~!!!

You mean he CHANGED HIS MIND?????

That’s it I would never ever vote for someone who changes their mond about something.

And besides he has no political experience. We need politicians who have been around for 15 or 20 years. After all, they are the ones who go us into this mess, I am sure they can get us out.

Oh and he’s not really black.