Posted on 10/13/2011 1:45:32 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
In the recent Bloomberg/Washington Post Republican presidential debate the moderators wanted the candidates to get specific regarding their economic/jobs plans.
That's sort of amusing considering that the level of specificity we got from Obama in 2008 was "hope" and "change you can believe in." It turns out that we didn't get much hope, but Obama kept his promise to "fundamentally transform the United States of America.
With his 9-9-9 plan Herman Cain might be getting a little too specific. Actually, it's not the specificity; it's the rigidity that Cain has been displaying which will eventually hurt him.
I think Cain would do well to present his general concept of abolishing the current tax system while remaining flexible as to the details of a fair, non-progressive (equal protection of the laws) tax system.
Rick Santorum pointed out the potential Achilles' heel of Cain's plan: once a federal sales tax is implemented, good luck ending it or lowering the rates in the future. Indeed, the rates will only increase over the years. (Cain's plan: 9% business flat tax; 9% individual flat tax; 9% national sales tax.)
As an experienced congressman, Santorum made the valid point that it may not be wise to give Congress a new tool to increase tax revenue. Remember, originally the income tax was supposed to be a temporary measure.
Cain's response: as president he would veto any law increasing the percentage rates. Well, that won't help much after Cain leaves office. In the future we could have high income tax rates and a national sales tax.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
I agree...there will need to be flexibility.
Bill Bennett mentioned this morning that he’d like to have Paul Ryan look at it and discuss it on his show, Bret Baier just mentioned that Art Laffer is going to be his 6 p.m. news show to discuss. Let’s let some other (experts) take a look at it and tell us what will work..and what needs work.
He still holds the top card, EVERYONE is talking about 999. Has anyone (media, columnists, etc.)looked at Romney’s yet and agreed or disagreed with it? I haven’t seen it if so. And that means Herman has the jump on them..simplicity. The guy knows his marketing stuff. Among many other things :-)
“I think the idea of a National Sales Tax is laudable but only after the income tax is abolished and the 16th amendment is repealed.”
Exactly how many previous amendments to the United States Constitution have been repealed?
How long did getting that repeal take?
Anyone — you, or anyone else in this forum — who really believes that the 16th Amendment is going to be repealed is living and dreaming in a fantasy land.
Even if Republicans retake the Senate in 2012 (fairly good chance of that), they are NOT going to get a 2/3’s majority.
And those ‘rats who are left will DIE before voting for such an amendment.
It ain’t happenin’....
Just sayin’....
no, I have it exactly right. a tax increase on consumption will trigger a decrease in actual consumption which will decrease production which will increase unemployment and; thereby, fuel the downward economic spiral that we are caught in. Cain's plan, by adding 9% to the cost of every purchase, has the distinction of exacerbating both inflationary and deflationary pressures which makes it the worst plan I have ever heard. The solution is simple, CUT SPENDING!
how about 9-9-9-9 which includes 9% tariffs
That is economic insanity. It is economic suicide.
Continuing to blow air into the bubble of hyper-consumption only feeds the Chinese economy and impoverishes us as a nation.
Cain’s plan doesn’t just add 9% to the cost of every purchase. The 9% is offset by lowering the prevailing prices of all domestically-produced goods by eliminating a large portion of the embedded taxes in the current prices of domestic goods.
And both domestic goods and imported goods would be subject to the 9% tax, leveling the playing field whereas as it is now we collect higher taxes from only domestic producers through high corporate income taxes. So domestic prices come down, imported prices stay the same and both are subject to the same sales tax.
This will help reverse the madness that is our trade imbalance and create decent manufacturing jobs in the United States.
Your type of mindset produces jobs only in China and condemns our grandchildren to poverty.
Of course we need to cut government spending, all conservatives agree on that. But we will still have $17 trillion of government debt when Zero is kicked out.
We desperately need to raise our savings rate and encourage domestic capital formation.
Our flexibility to implement tariffs is shackled by a web of treaties and MFN status for China and other countries
We can drop out of WTO and NAFTA at any time. No treaty is forever. I would love it if we became a country with less trade. We can do most of it at home. Our only true addiction is to Asian electronics. We should drop out and reverse engineer their shit. The present level of tech development is good enough for me.
China should not sell us anything for 10 years. We have a huge backlog of “stuff”. I see it at flea markets and garage sales. We can repair the stuff we have and this will provide zillions of jobs
I understand since I'm in the same boat (except the liquor tax). Cain wants to remove most of those taxes you referenced. No more FICA tax, no more Medicare tax, no more gas taxes. He wants to replace it with a sales tax and income tax that everyone pays, not just some of us. And the elimination of the all the crony deals and reduction of the corporate and capital gains taxes would allow the free market to drive down prices far more than the 9% added sales tax. The progressive income tax we have now is an tool of redistribution. Cain's plan needs work and can't pass the way it's written. But it's far better than what we have. Gingrich has proposed a 15% flat tax. The countries that have gone to a flat tax have had amazing economic growth. Anyway, thanks for answering me. I appreciate the discussion.
With all this focus on Cain’s 999 plan, why isn’t anyone asking Romney for the details of his plan? He’s been getting a pass on this, IMHO.
9-9-9 is a double edged sword because when the libs get in power they will have a new tax to rob people with. A national sales tax. Under an Obama type president he would agitate to make “fairness” adjustments such as decreasing the sales tax part and jacking up the income tax 9 to 19 for the rich whoever they might be
I'm always befuddled by this argument. How much harder would it be for Congress to raise a sales tax than jack the income tax back up to 90%? What's to stop them from raising the corporate tax rates right now to 90%? No one can stop a future congress from raising taxes except the voters. That has never changed. Right now there are several hidden taxes that Congress can raise without most people noticing. They would notice a sales tax increase, Conservative or Liberal. Cain and Gingrich want to take away the class warfare card and make everyone part of the system. I'm not against that.
We just don’t like giving Congress a whole new field to plow looking to get taxe money from the American people. Plus sales taxes are the province of states and counties, not the Feds. They get you on income and capital gains.
Yeah...that's kind of the point! Since we can't get rid of the income tax it's crazy to add a sales tax!
I fully sympathize with that point of view. I guess the most direct counter to it would be to say that Cain's plan or a flat tax would remove many, many more fields of taxation than they would add. At this point I think conservatives should be tired of screaming about how unsustainable the current system is and how contrary it is to the vision of our founders. I want a President that is willing to propose bold, radical changes to replace the corrupt system we have, not nibble around the edges and tweek the rules. Right now Cain and Gingrich (whom I've disqualified for a myriad of other reasons) are the only serious candidates who appear willing to tackle a system that is slowly grinding capitalism to a halt and draping the chains of slavery on us.
Thank you for your polite and reasonable discussion. I appreciate it.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1A sales tax is a excise applied upon the sale.The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Bull. Shiite. This is a windfall for the wealthy paid for by raising taxes on the poor and the middle class. Bachmann was right again... as usual.
What you cited is the authority for the Federal Gov’t to impose tariffs which it has done but never a national sales tax. That is the custom
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