Posted on 10/13/2011 5:19:07 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
Herman Cain's "9-9-9" tax reform is attracting enough attention to become the focus of this week's Presidential debate. As a plan for overhauling revenues and unleashing the private sector, it's a bold gambit that shows Cain is willing to take chances and shake up the Capital.
The 9 percent business tax is a stroke of genius. It would give us the lowest business rates in the world and would make us the "tax haven" for investment from everywhere. The stock market would barely be able to stay abreast. The 9 percent personal income rate would eliminate all the deductions and put everyone on a level playing field. Tax collection from "the rich" would skyrocket because no one would hide income anymore, but "the other 99%" would make out as well. Cain's plan would fold in the 15 percent payroll tax so the new 9 percent rate would be an improvement - but would end the immunity that the bottom half has from paying any taxes at all. Altogether a good show.
The stickler is that 9 percent national sales tax. That's where things start to fall apart....
The sales tax has long been the preserve of the states and is now imposed in all but five of them (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon). The informal arrangement has been that the federal government gets income taxes, the states get the sales tax and local municipalities are granted the property tax. Often they poach. States and even cities have imposed income taxes and have also started trespassing on the property tax. But for the federal government to demand a 9 percent sales tax would be a whole new departure. Combined with state and city levies, it puts us near 20 percent, which is black market territory.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
No, I am a conservative Republican. So is Cain.
Supporters of the Fair Tax are NOT just libertarian.
YOU joke of course. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you don’t understand the basics of free market competition? Companies will have to lower their prices in order to retain customers because other companies will. Mom and pop businesses will be competitive again because corporations will not have loopholes.
I’ll tell you what I have experience in. The fact that prices seldom ever come down, in the long run they always go up. And they will with this plan also. I garunteeeee it. Also, as your tagline proves (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com) you are so deep in the tank for Cain that no argument against his plan would hold water with you, as you are hopelessly in love with it and Cain.
Yes I am unabashedly a supporter for Cain, I volunteer for his campaign whenever I can. I voted for him in 2004 and he would have been light years better than RINO Isaakson in Gerogia.
I don’t feel the need hide which candidate I support, then bash other candidates because my candidate can stand on his own merits.
So...
Flaglady is a Romney supporter, and still smitten with Bush, party insider.
Beagle8U and SoJoCo (August newbie) are Perry supporters, and 90% of their posts are on Cain threads.
And their intellectual capacity on economic matters is evidenced in their posts.
I suspect they’re all women.
How about something that works? That isn't based on pie-in-the-sky claims and outright inaccuracies? And that won't guarantee a candidate will lose by guaranteeing to raise taxes on the most of the people in the country?
Well, now that we both know where you stand, I suggest you live up to your name, and jsnm. Toodles for now.
The point I was trying to make was simply that the more money that is involved, the more incentive people have to go around it.
So why aren’t you out pushing the benefits of Romney’s plan?
If Cain’s plan is as bad as you think it is, it will never pass so why waste your time.
I haven’t seen a thread on FR yet of how great Romney’s plan will be. Let’s see it!
The latter is a very interesting proposition.
You’re just pulling figures out of your azz and claiming it covers everyone. It’s just BS and spin.
I should also note that you’re a Perry supporter who thinks crying “spin” is in any way persuasive or intelligent.
You argue about as well as Perry debates (and he was my first choice until he demonstrated his incapability - I eve bought and enjoyed reading his book - I wish he could communicate as well on his feet as his book does in print).
Actually, the Fair Tax is pushed by most Libertarians. Are you one?
Which means...?
(Do you see how stupid your guilt by association looks?)
What IS the right tax plan?
How about something that works?
I suggest you live up to your name...
;-)
“I know I’ve won an argument when some below-the-median Freeper resorts at last to commenting on my screen name instead of the topic.”
Then change your screen name. It makes you too easy a target to resist.
“If Cain’s plan is as bad as you think it is, it will never pass”
Good.
—I agree, but I happen to believe that there is more evasion under a 28-35% federal income tax rate (plus state income tax, plus 15% payroll tax) than there would be under a sales tax in the teens, half of which going out of state would have no effect upon.—
The only way I disagree is that I think the incentive is, percentage point to point, greater with the sales tax because it is easier to cheat on sales tax than on income tax. It’s easy to make purchases that don’t trace back to you. It’s harder in the income area.
If they start asking for an SSN every time I purchase something, all bets are off.
So why aren’t you out pushing the benefits of Romney’s plan?
I haven’t seen a thread on FR yet of how great Romney’s plan will be. Let’s see it!
Federal revenue over the past 50 years or more has always been between 18% and 20&"Federal revenue" comes from personal income too.
So your so called 20% imbedded tax includes personal income in the price...How are prices going to be reduced 20% without reducing personal income?
I haven’t seen a thread on FR yet of how great Romney’s plan will be. Let’s see it!
It’s on-line. Don’t be lazy, go read it. Not doing your work for you. Then if you want to post a thread to refute it, I’ll be sure to hop on it.
How so? The payroll tax that is paid by the company is not the property of the employee. It is not a part of their compensation. It is a cost of doing business. And cost savings resulting from the elimination of the employee part of FICA is a benefit to the company alone.
My wife gets her insurance through my employer. By her not taking their insurance, the company saves several thousand dollars in the percentage of the premiums that they would have paid to insure her. By your logic, that is a savings that the company should be passing on to her as 'her money'. But surprisingly enough, the company somehow doesn't see it that way. It would be the same if FICA is repealed. Cain's claim is wrong.
$3800 income tax, $7500 payroll tax.
Which you can arrive at only by ignoring current law and tossing in the lame 15% claim. The fact of the matter is that a couple with two kids making $50,000 per year has individual deductions of $14,000 and a standard deduction of $11,400. On a taxable income of $24,000 their income tax is $2762.20. Two child tax credits of $1000 each brings their tax down to $762.20. The $800 Earn to Work credit takes the income tax to zero. That leaves FICA alone. $50000 at the current rate of 5.56% makes a tax of $2825. Not $10,000. Cain's claim is wrong.
Sounds like he’s being honest, acknowledging that there are no guarantees for every instance, but sticking to the economic principle that lowering business costs generally lowers prices.
It would be nice if he could point to something other than wishful thinking to support that. Given his wildly optimistic claims in other areas, there is no reason to believe that this would come to pass. Studies done in the past seem to indicate the opposite is true.
Be patient. President Cain will need to provide the leadership as Congress drafts the details.
I won't be holding my breath on President Cain ever coming to pass.
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