Posted on 10/12/2011 7:04:06 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Via Breitbart TV, the soundbite of the day from tonight’s debate. Is she right? According to Josh Barro (via our pal Karl), maybe so:
Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan includes a personal income tax, a business tax, and a sales tax, all at flat rates of nine percent. Bruce Bartlett critiques the plan in the New York Times today, and he flags a fact about the business tax that I hadn’t been aware of:
“The business tax in the Cain plan bears no resemblance to the present corporate income tax. The tax would apply to gross sales less dividends paid and all purchases from other companies, including investment goods. Thus, there would be no deduction for wages.”
This is far more similar to a value-added tax than to a corporate income tax. And indeed, the description on Cain’s website matches Bartlett’s, saying the business tax would apply to “Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.” One question is what Cain means by “gross income,” but I think he has to mean something like gross revenue–anything that looks like a profits concept would already exclude “purchases from other businesses” and so they would not be there to deduct.
In other words, in effect he’s proposing both a sales tax and a de facto VAT that’ll operate as a second sales tax on top of it. I’m not sure Bachmann realizes that or else she would have nailed him on it right here. Bad enough that Congress gets to play with one new “invisible” tax on consumers, but two?
There are so many issues left unanswered which a 30 second response cannot do justice to.
For instance:
1) How does it affect the life of a low income at or below or even a little above poverty level wage earner?
He ought to put some good a solid sample tax calculations on his website for people like these.
2) How will it affect the total price of goods and services?
3) How will it affect small businesses, will it make it more expensive or less expensive for them to do business?
4) It adds a new tax, which is a temptation to congress to turn it into a complicated pile of dung.
NOTE: Cain’s answer to #4 above was three-fold : A) A 2/3 majority will be required to increase any of the above number ‘9’; B) It won’t happen as long as he’s president; C) The vigilance of the people will ensure that this won’t happen.
Many still have their reservations ( as Bachmann said last night, if you turn the ‘9’ around the devil is in the details ). Firstly, Cain won’t be president forever, so any future Congress can monkey around with it after he’s gone. secondly, the 2/3 clause can be waived by a future Democrat Congress. I guess that leaves our vigilance as the last line of defense.
If Cain does not do it, his plan ( especially the federal sales tax portion ) will be attacked. Ric Santorum already tested this last night when he asked the people of New Hampshire if anyone of them want a sales tax ( no one raised their hands ... or maybe just one ).
She sounded very lame with that lame comment.
I was wondering when someone would notice that.
I ignored the gaffes. I ignored the boring message repeated ad infimitum. Finally it all became too much and I pushed the “ignore” button.
This was just plain stupid. The woman is clearly a danger to herself and others at this point.
BTW, on the debates, I agreed with Hotair -— Cain had to prove that he could keep up with Mitt Romney and not get flustered while coming under attack. He did a much better job of both than Rick Perry has done in any of these debates, and kept cool under pressure. He continued to use his sense of humor, perhaps less than in previous debates, but his personality and warmth still came through.
Cain had a Reagan-like moment in the first half when he demanded and took some time to address a question — and then a Gerald Ford-like swan dive moment when he named Alan Greenspan as his model for a Fed chair (YIKES, an opening for Ron Paul to attack!!)
Overall, though, he had a good debate, and did nothing to damage his momentum. His rebukes to Ron Paul and to Karen Tumulty for misquotes were firm but not hysterical, and that demonstrated that Cain can control debate currents.
I agree. How can you take Bachmann seriously when she is talking about 6-6-6?
This just feeds into her “flake” image.
It still isn’t clear to me. Is his 9% sales tax a VAT or a point of sale tax?
okay....maybe NOW Michele has really jumped the shark
agree, a dumb comment - very dumb. She is warping into Christine “I am not a witch!” O’Donnell with the stupid flip remarks
(dear God please tell me Bachmann is not paying someone to come up with this dribble)
This is a woman who has pinnacled at being in the Congress
It was a lame comment on her part.
Regardless, I think a constitutional amendment requiring a 2/3 majority for ANY tax increase isn’t a bad idea anyway...
BTW, on the debates, I agreed with Hotair -— Cain had to prove that he could keep up with Mitt Romney and not get flustered while coming under attack. He did a much better job of both than Rick Perry has done in any of these debates, and kept cool under pressure. He continued to use his sense of humor, perhaps less than in previous debates, but his personality and warmth still came through.
Cain had a Reagan-like moment in the first half when he demanded and took some time to address a question — and then a Gerald Ford-like swan dive moment when he named Alan Greenspan as his model for a Fed chair (YIKES, an opening for Ron Paul to attack!!)
Overall, though, he had a good debate, and did nothing to damage his momentum. His rebukes to Ron Paul and to Karen Tumulty for misquotes were firm but not hysterical, and that demonstrated that Cain can control debate currents.
“The vigilance of the people will ensure that this won’t happen.”
These “vigilant” people haven’t been terribly effective in preventing the income tax and payroll tax from mushrooming to levels far higher than those initially promised by the politicians who championed these levies.
I like “out-of-the-box” thinking, but worry this particular idea may be too half-baked for prime-time.
One thing about Cain, for someone to succeed in Big Business, more than just succeed but really triumph, with that accent, well, there is a real solid person there.
Maybe he can turn it on and off but I’ve never heard him speak without it.
I think it is clear that Cain didn’t really think through this, nor did he expect to be the frontrunner (and the plan gaining real scrutinity).
Anyway, since it introduces new tax (sales) with no real protection of keeping it at 9%, it has zero chance of getting traction.
GOP will control congress, so president’s job is to sign whatever House and Senate agrees. Dems will filibuster everything, so nothing will happen.
999 was a nice talking point for a while, but let’s move on.
Cutting spending and lowering taxes is good enough for now.
GOP should use the opening Reid gave them (changing senate rules and using nuclear option) and expand nuclear option and passing everything with majority vote (repeal ObamaCare, and tax reform).
I think it is clear that Cain didn’t really think through this, nor did he expect to be the frontrunner (and the plan gaining real scrutinity).
Anyway, since it introduces new tax (sales) with no real protection of keeping it at 9%, it has zero chance of getting traction.
GOP will control congress, so president’s job is to sign whatever House and Senate agrees. Dems will filibuster everything, so nothing will happen.
999 was a nice talking point for a while, but let’s move on.
Cutting spending and lowering taxes is good enough for now.
GOP should use the opening Reid gave them (changing senate rules and using nuclear option) and expand nuclear option and passing everything with majority vote (repeal ObamaCare, and tax reform).
the msm is looking to extend this primary for ratings and to help obama.
bacman did her job of pushing the election to the right.
same with santorum and both should pull out.
neut too.
huntsman was and is a RINO’s RINO.
I’m glad, I was too busy to watch it last night. I like Cain and he can surround himself with the right people. When he said he would bring Gingrich in as a senior adviser he instantly got my vote.
Every time in history, whenever the marginl tax rate has been lowered, economies and tax revenues have boomed. Every single time. You should know this.
In Canada, there is a 17% GST, NOT A VAT, half goes to federal govt and half to the province. 9% sales tax would not kill any one paired with 9% flat tax.
It is the GOP Elite who are slipping gardasil in her drink so that she would say these things. /sarc
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