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Would Herman Cain's '9-9-9' Plan Tax Poor People's Food, Clothing?
International Business Times ^ | 10/11/2011 | Ashley Portero

Posted on 10/11/2011 6:56:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: sam_paine

I believe the argument is that it is a lot harder to raise rates when it is on everyone vs. the class warfare that has taken place in the current system. “tax the rich”, lower taxes on middle class, etc. Everyone has skin in the game.

I agree it is a fair discussion to have, whether it is fair, flat or any tax change. I think we all agree here at FR the current system is terrible, and horribly corrupted and has been almost since the day 1. I am a proponent of the flat tax because I believe it would be a much more effective system and a much easier transition than replacing with the sales tax, but I am open to either approach.


21 posted on 10/11/2011 7:22:22 AM PDT by ilgipper (Everything you get from the government was taken from someone else)
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To: sam_paine

I think the proposal is to require a 2/3 vote in Congress to change the rate.


22 posted on 10/11/2011 7:22:33 AM PDT by sauropod (William Kristol does NOT choose my presidential candidate!)
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To: sauropod

RE: The economic ignorance of this article fairly leaps out at you.

We are eager to read your elaboration.


23 posted on 10/11/2011 7:23:25 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: sam_paine
I’m just worried about the size of the check I write at the end of the day on April 14.

As well you should. The problem is there are too many people out there who aren't.

At last count, something like 50% of Americans pay no income tax. Not only that, but a large number of those who pay no income tax actually get a "refund" in the form of the "Earned Income Tax Credit" or other freebies.

What I don't like about Cain's plan is that, by his own declaration, fully funds government AS IT IS.

That sucks.

To paraphrase that nutbag who ran for Governor of New York last year, the government is too damn big!

I don't want to fund the government at its current level. I want the size and scope of government to decrease.

Cain's tax plan MAY cause that to happen if EVERYBODY feels the pain. Which the sales tax certainly would.

24 posted on 10/11/2011 7:24:04 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: sam_paine
Can someone explain to me how 9-9-9 does NOT become 10-10-10 in the next congress, or then 18-18-18 under the next D admin?

Can someone explain to me how current progressive tax rates of 10, 15, 25, 28, 33, 35 does NOT become 15, 20, 30, 33, 38, 40 in the next congress, or then 20, 25, 35, 38, 43, 45 under the next D admin?

When you can answer that question, then I'll take your question about Cain's plan seriously.

The rates under Cain's plan are no more likely to go up than they are under any other tax plan. In truth, the rates under Cain's plan are less likely to to up because (1) they are are more transpararent, and (2) they affect everyone equally, so you no longer have the class warfare calls to raise taxes on the rich.

25 posted on 10/11/2011 7:24:32 AM PDT by Brookhaven (Why Not Herman Cain?)
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To: Texas Eagle
Food? No.

Food? Yes. Read the article. Food, yes. Housing, yes. Gasoline, yes. Doctor's visits, yes. Clothing, yes. Transportation, yes. Insurance, yes.

In fact, it's hard to know for sure what the bottom line will be. Cain's website lists zero exemptions to the 9% sales tax. Cain himself seems to exempt items at a whim, depending on who he is talking to. It'd be nice if he would make up his mind.

26 posted on 10/11/2011 7:25:01 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: Texas Eagle; sam_paine

Strawman argument.

What is to stop them from raising income rates now? Nothing. And they raise them quite often.

Cain’s plan will require 2/3 majority to change. Plus since everyone is paying, with no loopholes, there should be enormous pressure on Congress not to touch those rates.

That MORE limitation that is currently on Congress in regards to taxes.

And how we fire IRS agents? We say, YOU’RE FIRED.


27 posted on 10/11/2011 7:26:08 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: Texas Eagle

RE: Nobody will be able to explain how you’re going to fire tens of thousands of IRS employees, tax accountants, etc., either.

Maybe we should make the tax code EVEN MORE complicated so that we can keep these people’s jobs and create more jobs for accountants.

For that matter, let’s encourage protestors to smash more windows so that it will create more jobs for window and glass makers.


28 posted on 10/11/2011 7:26:17 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: Conservative Actuary
The reason the tax wouldn't apply to a house or car is Cain is making the assumption that they are buying a used house or car not brand new and under the Fair Tax which his 9-9-9 plan is a hybrid of the tax is only paid on new purchases.

So what will that do to the new car industry and the housing industry? It'll drive up the value of existing houses and used cars, and drop demand for new cars and new houses. What does that do to Ford and Honda and homebuilders?

29 posted on 10/11/2011 7:27:30 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: justsaynomore; sam_paine

RE: And how we fire IRS agents?

We don’t need to fire them all. Immigration has a huge backlog right now. We can move some of them to the immigration department where they can re-use their talents for spotting frauds.


30 posted on 10/11/2011 7:28:10 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (u)
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To: NativeNewYorker
Actually, the max rate is 17.19%. The sales tax isn't paid on the 9% that is income taxes, so the highest effective tax rate is 17.19%.
31 posted on 10/11/2011 7:29:20 AM PDT by Brookhaven (999 Tax Calculator: http://goo.gl/AHsjH)
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To: SeekAndFind
However, Michael Linden, the Center for American Progress' Director of Tax and Budget Policy, told Think Progress

The real reason for the article is eventually put into plain focus. Cain is going to be peppered with the "gotcha" questions tonight and I am looking forward to it. After listening to him for some time during his Boortz fill-ins, I say he is equal to the challenge and could very well "Gingrich" the questions.

32 posted on 10/11/2011 7:29:42 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: SoJoCo
Food? Yes. Read the article.Bottom line is Cain's plan will never see the light of day. But it does show he is a man of ideas and that's something that is seriesly lacking in polluticians.
33 posted on 10/11/2011 7:30:58 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: SoJoCo

I don’t know what you are reading, but none of those things are sales tax deductions under Cain’s plan and he reiterated that in the interview.

Again, this part of Cain’s plan has been hashed out for years by the Fair Tax folks. http://www.fairtax.org


34 posted on 10/11/2011 7:31:44 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: SeekAndFind
We don’t need to fire them all. Immigration has a huge backlog right now. We can move some of them to the immigration department where they can re-use their talents for spotting frauds.

Perfect :-)

35 posted on 10/11/2011 7:33:02 AM PDT by justsaynomore (Cain 2012 - http://teamcain.hermancain.com)
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To: SeekAndFind
Maybe we should make the tax code EVEN MORE complicated so that we can keep these people’s jobs and create more jobs for accountants. For that matter, let’s encourage protestors to smash more windows so that it will create more jobs for window and glass makers.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not promoting the current tax system. I'm just saying nobody will have the guts to tell hundreds of thousands of government employees, "You're fired!"

Well, maybe Ronald Reagan.

Even in his current condition, he'd be a better President than Urkel.

36 posted on 10/11/2011 7:33:10 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: justsaynomore
Cain’s plan will require 2/3 majority to change.

First, Cain's website doesn't say that. Second, is that even Constitutional? Currently the Constitution requires super majorities only for vetoes and for amendments. For everything else it requires only a simple majority. I don't think that Congress can just pass a law saying 2/3rds approval is required for some bills and not others.

37 posted on 10/11/2011 7:36:46 AM PDT by SoJoCo
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To: justsaynomore
And how we fire IRS agents? We say, YOU’RE FIRED.

I'm just keepin' it real. Ain't now way that's going to happen. Unless Ronald Reagan returns from the grave.

Cain's plan is fun to discuss and debate but it ain't going to happen.

That's all I'm saying.

Don't get me wrong, I wish it would. But it won't.

38 posted on 10/11/2011 7:37:30 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: SoJoCo

I don’t disagree with you but the point - as I’m sure Cain would argue, perhaps off the record - is that a flat tax SOUNDS ‘fair’ and would draw popular support as a result.

The ignorant haven’t figured out that corporations don’t pay taxes, that banks simply pass on ‘punishment’ to the account holders, and that ‘free’ schools, clothing, food, and health care are not actually free. Call me a pessimist, but I don’t expect them to gain enlightenment on this point either.


39 posted on 10/11/2011 7:37:42 AM PDT by relictele (Pax Quaeritur Bello)
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To: SoJoCo
So what will that do to the new car industry and the housing industry? It'll drive up the value of existing houses and used cars, and drop demand for new cars and new houses. What does that do to Ford and Honda and homebuilders?

Ford and Honda currently pay a 35% federal tax rate. I their federal tax rate went down to 9%, don't you think the competiton between car companies would cause them to lower their prices--lower them enough to cover the additional sales tax, so that the end cost to the buyer (even with the 9% sales tax) is LESS than it currently is?

40 posted on 10/11/2011 7:37:48 AM PDT by Brookhaven (999 Tax Calculator: http://goo.gl/AHsjH)
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