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To: sometime lurker
I did answer your post in my previous post, but I want to point out the definitive answer - this thread was not about what the Founders had in mind. It was about cases where the children were called "natural born citizens" and the father was an alien. The question raised was whether the child was deported with the father.

These are legal issues, and there are court rulings that address these issues. And THAT is what the thread is about.

This thread is nothing more than a continuation of the previous argument as to whether Barack Obama constitutes a "natural born citizen" under Article II as the founder's understood it. You seem to believe they were morons, and that they set the bar at the amazingly low level of just being born inside our borders, and I think they didn't spell it out more clearly because they never conceived that subsequent generations could be so stupid.

Jus Soli is contrary to the interests of any Free nation. That it serves the will of a King quite well is obvious, but to a Free nation it is a bane. Jus Soli only works in the best interest of a nation that uses the principle to force it's newly claimed subjects to serve the ruling power. Giving people citizenship rights with no commiserate requirement of loyalty or responsibility is first class idiocy.

418 posted on 10/17/2011 8:03:49 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp
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To: DiogenesLamp; sometime lurker
This thread is nothing more than a continuation of the previous argument as to whether Barack Obama constitutes a "natural born citizen" under Article II as the founder's understood it. You seem to believe they were morons, and that they set the bar at the amazingly low level of just being born inside our borders, and I think they didn't spell it out more clearly because they never conceived that subsequent generations could be so stupid.

Yes, I can imagine the conversation now:

Founder 1: So we've decided on qualifications. All Representatives must have been U.S. citizens for at least seven years, and all Senators must have been U.S. citizens for at least nine years.
Founder 2: You sure it's OK to have naturalized citizens running our country?
Founder 1: Yeah, that's fine.
Founder 2: OK then. And the President?
Founder 1: Oh, he needs to be born on U.S. soil and both his mother and his father must have been U.S. citizens at the time of his birth. The only way we can ensure his loyalty is through the citizenship of his parents, you know.
Founder 2: Well that's awfully specific. We'd better be clear about that in the text.
Founder 1: No, we'll just write "natural born citizen." They'd be morons to not realize that implies an absolute requirement of parental citizenship at the time of one's birth.

Incidentally, something tells me that the U.S. Supreme Court could hand down a unanimous ruling tomorrow, written by Chief Justice John Roberts himself, that Obama is a natural born citizen, and that "natural born citizenship" does not require parental citizenship, and DiogenesLamp would still be arguing that the Supreme Court is wrong.

419 posted on 10/17/2011 8:28:53 AM PDT by Vickery2010
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To: DiogenesLamp
You seem to believe they were morons,

Absolutely incorrect.

Jus Soli is contrary to the interests of any Free nation.

Go argue with James Madison, then.

One has to look at the historical context, not by today's standards. In context, there was a big empty country, and a need to attract more citizens, especially those with skills. It was also a time when nine of the very Founders were born overseas (Scotland, Ireland, England, West Indies). Today, we have unwanted and illegal immigrants - a very different situation from the time of the Founders.

423 posted on 10/17/2011 10:13:10 AM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: DiogenesLamp
If you have a problem with the Jus Soli doctrine of citizenship, then you have a problem with the US Constitution. There is no question that the US Constitution, specifically the 14th Amendment, provides for Jus Soli citizenship. That is accepted and well settled citizenship law in the US, and has been for over 100 years. Read the SCOTUS case, Rogers v. Bellei.

It is the job of SCOTUS to apply the Constitution to the fact situation presented to them. It not their job to apply what they think is the right thing to do. That is the mentality of liberal activist judges. For someone who claims to be a conservative, you seem to have a lot of problems with the Constitution.

425 posted on 10/17/2011 10:37:57 AM PDT by ydoucare
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To: DiogenesLamp
To clarify one point in my previous post. I believe the founding fathers recognized Jus Soli citizenship. The adoption of the 14th Amendment only clarified and made it completely clear, if there had ever been any doubt, that the Jus Soli doctrine of citizenship was recognized in the US. There has been no legal controversy for the past century as to the application of Jus Soli principles and doctrine to the definition of natural born citizen.
426 posted on 10/17/2011 10:47:44 AM PDT by ydoucare
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