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To: DiogenesLamp
The dissent in WKA shows how stupid the birthers are in their argument regarding nbc. The dissent recognizes that under the precedent, opinion and holding in WKA, that if a person is born in the sovereign territorial limits of the US (except a child of a foreign diplomat), that person is a nbc and eligible to be President. That continues to be the rule of law to present day. The decision in Ankeny v Daniels (2008) is a good example of of the state of the law today regarding natural born citizenship.

You may not like the 14th amendment, but it will continue to be enforced, short of a constitutional amendment. That is real life and real law, not some fantasy about it being “dubious”. If you wish to change anything about the 14th Amendment, I suggest you help organize movement to amend it. That will be much more effective than what you doing now.

324 posted on 10/13/2011 1:06:05 PM PDT by ydoucare
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To: ydoucare
The dissent recognizes that under the precedent, opinion and holding in WKA, that if a person is born in the sovereign territorial limits of the US (except a child of a foreign diplomat), that person is a nbc and eligible to be President.

The dissent was responding to a claim that was cited in a lower court ruling and was entered as an objection in the appeal to the Supreme Court. The majority punted this issue altogether, but still upheld the precedent set in Minor v. Happersett for how NBC is actually defined. The real complaint in the dissent was that the U.S. could not arbitrarily break the treaty with China that did not allow its subjects to become citizens of the U.S. Gray went around this by building the case of "fundamental rule citizenship by birth" through English common law as setting an international precedent strong enough so that the U.S. Constitution, via the 14th amendment, would trump an international treaty. This ignores of course, that the Constitution places itself and treaties on the same level under the supremacy clause:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land;

326 posted on 10/13/2011 1:21:26 PM PDT by edge919
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To: ydoucare
The dissent in WKA shows how stupid the birthers are in their argument regarding nbc. The dissent recognizes that under the precedent, opinion and holding in WKA, that if a person is born in the sovereign territorial limits of the US (except a child of a foreign diplomat), that person is a nbc and eligible to be President. That continues to be the rule of law to present day. The decision in Ankeny v Daniels (2008) is a good example of of the state of the law today regarding natural born citizenship.

The fact that dissent exists indicates the legal concept is not so clear as people would have us believe. It is an article of faith among conservatives that the Supreme Court et al gets it wrong far too often. Now I am just trying to find out if you are a typical conservative that believes the courts get things wrong, or whether you believe they are infallible. Do the courts ever get it wrong? Say, Roe v Wade?

You may not like the 14th amendment, but it will continue to be enforced, short of a constitutional amendment. That is real life and real law, not some fantasy about it being “dubious”. If you wish to change anything about the 14th Amendment, I suggest you help organize movement to amend it. That will be much more effective than what you doing now.

I have no difficulties with the INTENT of the 14th amendment, I have issue with how badly it was written and how subject to abuse it has been since it was ratified at the point of a gun. If people would just count it as having granted citizenship and equal protection under the law to Freed Slaves, then that would be perfectly acceptable. This side track by a "legislating from the bench" court into citizenship for foreigners, banning religion in the public square, and creating a fake right to abortion is utterly stupid.

Again, Do you believe the court ever gets anything wrong?

345 posted on 10/14/2011 6:32:06 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp
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