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To: Squeeky
The 1898 court "thingy" says that the Supreme Court was "committed to the view that all children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of foreign States were excluded from the operation of the first sentence of the Fourteenth Amendment ..." and that "all children, born in a country of [p680] parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens ..." This is a specific and EXCLUSIVE definition. This definition is defined OUTSIDE of the Constitution.

The paragraph you quoted about "All persons born in the allegiance of the king are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together" is from U.S. v Rhodes which recognized that you could be born IN THE UNITED STATES and NOT be a U.S. citizen. To be in the allegiance of the United States required that the parents ADHERED to the United States and NOT to Great Britain. Swayne cited Shanks v. Dupont for this part of the common law:

"All those, whether natives or otherwise, who then adhered to the American states, were virtually absolved from their allegiance to the British crown, and those who then adhered to the British crown, were deemed and held subjects of that crown. The treaty of peace was a treaty operating between the states on each side, and the inhabitants thereof; in the language of the seventh article, it was a ‘firm and perpetual peace between his Britannic majesty and the said states, and between the subjects of one and the citizens of the other.’ Who then were subjects or citizens was to be decided by the state of facts. If they were originally subjects of Great Britain and then adhered to her and were claimed by her as subject, the treaty deemed them such; if they were originally British subjects, but then adhering to the states, the treaty deemed them citizens.”

Are you UNDERSTANDING what this says?? If a person was NATIVE or otherwise ... IOW, this would include those who were born in the United States who would NOT be U.S. citizen, but would be British subjects because they adhered to the Crown. Thus, in U.S. v Rhodes, you get TWO possible conditions from being born in the United States: NBC or subject of Great Britain. Those persons who adhered to the United States were U.S. citizens and of course, their children if born in the country would be natural born citizens.

140 posted on 10/04/2011 10:39:49 PM PDT by edge919
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To: edge919
You are still NOT giving the facts of the cases you are quoting from. Which, I will not waste my time reading something that is from BEFORE Wong Kim Ark, because you Vattle Birthers have a real bad track record of being able to read stuff and get it right, like the one here who was quoting Venus something which was about a SHIP and the war of 1812 and backed up the notions of allegiance being tied to where you were, which was the same thing the Wong Kim Ark judges said. Talk about me wasting my time and Fabia Sheen, Esq.'s time on a wild goose chase.

What are the cases you are quoting about, what year were they, what are the basics stuff about them, and what is a link. Until then, I can read just fine by myself and I do not need a pretend lawyer on the Internet telling me what stuff means, particularly when they can't understand thwe following:

From 1898 Wong Kim Ark and THE SUPREME COURT:

It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born.

III. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the constitution as originally established.13

All persons born in the allegiance of the king are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England. We find no warrant for the opinion that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions, since as before the Revolution.

There is NO Vattle stuff there and none of your theory of citizen stuff there at all. It doesn't say some aliens and not others except for the two exceptions listed. It just says what it says, and it says you are wrong. Sooo, please read it and quit being a Vattle Birther.

141 posted on 10/04/2011 11:16:08 PM PDT by Squeeky ("Truth is so rare that it is delightful to tell it. " Emily Dickinson)
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