Posted on 09/19/2011 2:04:14 PM PDT by tedw
[Is] rapid population [growth] by as great importations of foreigners as possible ... founded in good policy? ... They will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or, if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty.
These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their number, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass ... If they come of themselves, they are entitled to all the rights of citizenship: but I doubt the expediency of inviting them by extraordinary encouragements ...
Well, the first thing, if your basement is flooding, you get the water turned off.
So, you secure the border. We do not lack the ability to do so, only the political will.
Then, you roll up the welfare red carpet.
Then, you stiffen the penalties for employers who knowingly employ illegals. And enforce it. Without stripping the essential rights of the American people in the process.
Then, you empower local law enforcement to detain known or suspected illegals, and provide the manpower to deport them as soon as it is determined that they don’t belong here.
That would solve most of the problem right there.
I agree that a company employing illegals should be punished. But how is a company to know?
What E-verify should be is simply a federal website where a prospective employer can find out if Juan Valdez is really Juan Valdez and whether he's third-generation American, green-card holder, or illegal. And whether his SSN is really his or belongs to some old lady in Dubuque. Only then is it just and practical to hold an employer responsible.
How would you propose to do it? Either you have a practical solution, or you are for open immigration.
Your post makes the foolish assumption that I support illegal immigration. That’s patent nonsense. I simply don’t believe the American people should have the federal government involved in determining their fitness to earn their daily bread.
I’ve asked folks on your side of this debate many times to show me the Constitutional authority for the national government to dictate anything about the workplace or employment, and so far, of course, nada.
Do you really believe that Jefferson would have stood still for such over-riding, over-weening governmental power over the lives and the livelihood of the American people?
I think he’d be pondering a new revolution.
Then, you stiffen the penalties for employers who knowingly employ illegals. And enforce it. Without stripping the essential rights of the American people in the process.
How do you do this without creating a proper verifiable way to allow companies to check status and to enforce its use?
Sounds like E-Verfy
Then, you empower local law enforcement to detain known or suspected illegals, and provide the manpower to deport them as soon as it is determined that they don’t belong here.
Without verifiable IDs how do we do this? And detaining suspected illegals? What happened to civil rights concerns?
The government won't enforce anything in this area, because it's politically incorrect and might cause the Donks to lose votes and certain other constituencies access to cheap labor.
Requiring E-verify to work or receive welfare benefits would solve the problem. The illegals would self-deport, and border security would only be needed to keep out the likes of al Qaeda.
Government is going to ‘collect’ one way or another. What is to prevent an illegal dropping the dime on a business for hiring them.
You're changing the subject, from E-Verify, which is a national database of those whom the government says can work, and identification. Two different things.
Are you advocating a national ID?
I mean, after all, that's the road you've got us going down.
That would work, but only if you rolled it up for everybody, including all of the EBT set. That way, you'd still get illegals coming here, but they'd have to turn into useful citizens or they'd starve. That would be a much smaller problem than what we actually have. We'd have to decide whether to give them one of those paths to citizenship
or let them keep working and simply keep their SS and other revenue contributions and let them starve when they turn into cottonheads.
So, what’s next when you find out that E-Verify didn’t make a damned bit of difference?
A government database of those qualified to buy and sell?
How about a little “biometrics” to go with it, eh?
Where exactly does this road end?
Not nonsense. I already know a half dozen ways that illegals use to evade e-Verify, with or without the complicity of their employer.
This is possible for the simple reason that all e-Verify *verifies*, is papers, not identities. The two are not the same thing. The feds are still trying, unsuccessfully, to incorporate biometric data, and they were also counting on REAL ID, so they could cross check the two databases, along with their multitude of other databases.
So the bottom line is that e-Verify is fine for verifying that citizens that want to help them prove they are citizens, are indeed citizens.
Much like how gun control keeps guns out of the hands of good citizens, despite endless protestations that it *must also*, somehow, keep guns out of the hands of criminals, who don’t care what the law says.
In other words, in its current form, an intrusive waste of taxpayer money, grotesque expansion of federal power, and “feel good” simplicity for those that hate complex answers to complex problems, and will embrace any idea, no matter how ineffectual, as long as it is simple and easy to understand.
E-verify is the most effective system we have to verify employment elegiblilty. It is far superior than the flawed I-9 system.
No offense, but you have to be somewhat of an idiot or an open border traitor not to be for it.
And you sound like a “federal employee” for giving it your unqualified endorsement. A little “enlightened advocacy” of the gravy train, to keep your job? Shoo, little apparatchik.
Ir juat checks your social security number is all to see if
you are the actual person with the number. It checks on identity theft and phony cards. Nothing to be afraid of her folks.
BTW, the bill passed the Judiciary committe and will pass the house. Call your Senator to support this. Lets get it done.
And wake up you Conservatives that dont support this. !!
It is more than just a simple social security check. As you heard from that Judge Andrew Napolitano video (earlier post), the federal administrators are already checking into transferring everyone’s driver’s license info and picture into an e-verify data base. That would be only the beginning.
It is odd that the most conservative of groups are joining with liberal groups in opposing the e-verify program, but mark my word that real conservatives do NOT want this program due to the infringement of personal liberty and potential for abuse by a federal government or a federal administration.
Would YOU want Obama’s goons having the ability to know all about you?
And if you don’t think this is a problem, why do you think all these tea party groups and conservative organizations are against e-verity?
(See earlier posts for even more concerns by tea party groups and conservative organizations.)
***
From: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903374004576582972570020918.html
Conservative, tea-party and libertarian groups have joined liberals in fighting a signature Republican bill in Congress that would crack down on illegal-immigrant workers. The legislation, they argue, would hurt businesses and employees while expanding government regulation.
The bill, by Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith (R., Texas), would require all employers to use E-Verify, an electronic government database that checks whether new hires are eligible to work in the U.S.
(snip)
The letter said requiring the use of E-Verify, which is currently voluntary, would create a de facto national identification system, infringe on rights such as the freedom to seek work, cripple small businesses, turn employers into immigration agents and encourage identity theft. The letter calls the bill a “job killer” that will cost employers millions of dollars. Judson Phillips, founder of Tea Party Nation and one of the letter’s 27 signatories, said that his movement strongly opposed illegal immigration but that “it’s not private enterprise’s job to enforce immigration.”
“The bill doesn’t stem the tide of illegal immigration,” said Andrew Langer, president of the Institute for Liberty, an antiregulation group. Instead, he said, “it adds to the burden on small business when the economy is in the doldrums—a baffling idea.”
(snip)
The efforts of the conservative and libertarian groups put them on the same side of the bill as liberal organizations that favor an amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants. “We may disagree on many aspects of the immigration debate, but we can all agree we want to see this bill fail,” said Michael Ostrolenk, national director of the conservative Liberty Coalition and coordinator of the campaign against mandatory use of E-Verify.
(End of Excerpt)
GOProud?
Aren’t they the new “Log Cabin Republicans”?
Lately many bills have hidden booby traps. The first bill the new Republican House and Senate should pass is that each bill have only one purpose. Enough stealth.
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