I am not a number, I am a free man.
Bureaucrats should be warned tar and feathers will soon come back in style.
Posted on 09/19/2011 11:04:53 AM PDT by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears
A southern California couple has been fined $300 dollars for holding Christian Bible study sessions in their home, and could face another $500 for each additional gathering.
City officials in San Juan Capistrano, Calif. say Chuck and Stephanie Fromm are in violation of municipal code 9-3.301, which prohibits “religious, fraternal or non-profit” organizations in residential neighborhoods without a permit. Stephanie hosts a Wednesday Bible study that draws about 20 attendees, and Chuck holds a Sunday service that gets about 50.
The Fromms appealed their citations but were denied and warned future sessions would carry heftier penalties. A statement from the Pacific Justice Institute, which is defending the couple in a lawsuit against the city, said Chuck Fromm was also told regular gatherings of three or more people require a conditional use permit, which can be costly and difficult to obtain.
“How dare they tell us we can’t have whatever we want in our home,” Stephanie Fromm told the Capistrano Dispatch. “We want to be able to use our home. We’ve paid a lot and invested a lot in our home and backyard … I should be able to be hospitable in my home.”
According to the Dispatch, the Fromms live in a neighborhood with large homes and have a corral, barn, pool and huge back lawn on their property, so parking and noise aren’t a problem.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
>>They’re called zoning laws. If you want to change them, fight them. Till then, ignorance is no excuse.<<
Under this law, three people could meet for a Bible study and be fined by the government.
If you don’t have a problem with that, you have no concept of tyranny, no concept of statism, no concept of freedom, and no concept of America.
>>It worries me that they were told it was a legal problem and ignored the government which violates Romans 13.<<
Yeah, I guess according to you, the colonists should have submitted to religious tyranny too, and not fought the American Revolution, to adhere to Romans 13?
Chuck and Stephanie Fromm are in violation of municipal code 9-3.301, which prohibits “religious, fraternal or non-profit” organizations in residential neighborhoods without a permit.
The federal Constitution prohibits that. I doubt the California state constitution allows that sort of law either. Is this America or not?
You are very right. Sometimes, there is a fine line between exercising ones rights, while not stepping on the rights of others while doing so. The neighbors have the right to quiet Sundays at home without all the traffic, car doors slamming and whatnot. jmo
Previous cases have a mixed bag of fact patterns, such as being denied a church use permit in an area zoned commercial / retail.
A provision of RLUIPA bars government officials from imposing land-use restrictions that treat religious groups "on less than equal terms with" nonreligious groups.For "Ears" benefit, note that it is permissible to have land-use restrictions apply to religious groups.
I always find these types of threads to be interesting, on the occasions when they are posted. Interesting because you typically get the same breakdown each time.
On one side, you have the folks who hide behind the “law and order” argument, you know, “tough luck, shoulda got a permit.” These generally tend to be made up of the irreligious, if not always or necessarily atheists, types who hear about home Bible studies and don’t like the idea because they’re afraid that “Bible thumpers” might use unrestricted freedom to tell them they shouldn’t look up porno on the internet or something. Throw in a heaping helping of the mainline Catholic/Protestant types who are already naturally suspicious of “unorganized/uncontrolled” religious freedom anywise.
On the other hand, you have the more genuine Christians who think that the government doesn’t have any business using the false front of “necessary” regulations to violate the 1st/14th amendments.
What do you have to say about this scripture?
Acts 5:
27Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28“We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
29Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than men!
A fine is better than being thrown to the Lions ,maybe they will pass that next election
It’s OK. I’ll got with you just misunderstood my incoherent writing. ;-)
Kind of like how Peter violated Romans 13 in Acts 5:29?
The bastards won't let me keep my tanker load of gunpowder in the back yard, next to the gradeschool.
-- The federal Constitution prohibits that. --
It prohibits zoning being applied to churches?
Rom 13:1-6 MKJV
(1) Let every soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God.
(2) So that the one resisting the authority resists the ordinance of God; and the ones who resist will receive judgment to themselves.
(3) For the rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the bad. And do you desire to be not afraid of the authority? Do the good, and you shall have praise from it.
(4) For it is a servant of God to you for good. For if you practice evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword in vain; for it is a servant of God, a revenger for wrath on him who does evil.
(5) Therefore you must be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.
(6) For because of this you also pay taxes. For they are God’s servants, always giving attention to this very thing.
In case you can’t tell, that’s not my handwriting. I didn’t write it. I’m just telling you what is says.
>>For “Ears” benefit, note that it is permissible to have land-use restrictions apply to religious groups. <<
There is no doubt that our Constitutional rights have been eroded from the Founder’s intent. And the First Amendment has been lawyered to death and is almost extinct.
I however do not applaud it, I think it is a shame how far this country is sunk, and sometimes I think the Constitution is meaningless.
Nothing to celebrate or be smug about here.
How about the Dobermans who enforce the law?
And this is not my handwriting either. And I have yet to hear your response:
Acts 5:
27Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28“We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.”
29Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than men!
The “dobermans”? Are they sending the dogs after the Christians again?
Do you think the Revolutionaries were “disobedient Christians” when they fought for religious liberty?
I would love to get your take on that.
“We must obey God rather than men!”
Romans 13:1
For there is no authority but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God.
Once again, not my handwriting. In Romans, Paul was referring to the government, not the religious leaders.
Just hide the Bibles in Koran covers. No problem.
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