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To: Mr Rogers

There are only two direct references of the phrase “natural-born citizen” in your C&P. One was from the Constitution and the other was from a ruling where persons born in the United States on domestic soil were ruled to be British subjects. That kind of undermines the rest of what you posted.

And BTW, Gray ignored a quote from the opinion of the court in Inglis v. Sailors’ Snug Harbor in which the court followed the Law of Nations and noted that persons born AFTER the declaration of independence on U.S. followed the citizenship of the father. IOW, the U.S. only observed English common law in terms of how it affected loyalists, not U.S. citizens.


97 posted on 09/17/2011 9:43:14 AM PDT by edge919
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To: edge919

“There are only two direct references of the phrase “natural-born citizen” in your C&P. “

That is because, as they clearly stated, they considered natural born subject to be the source of the phrase natural born citizen.

“The Constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words, either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except insofar as this is done by the affirmative declaration that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.” In this as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution. Minor v. Happersett, 21 Wall. 162; Ex parte Wilson, 114 U.S. 417, 422; Boyd v. United States, 116 U.S. 616, 624, 625; Smith v. Alabama, 124 U.S. 465. The language of the Constitution, as has been well said, could not be understood without reference to the common law. Kent Com. 336; Bradley, J., in Moore v. United States, 91 U.S. 270, 274. [p655]”

and

n Smith v. Alabama, Mr. Justice Matthews, delivering the judgment of the court, said:

“There is no common law of the United States, in the sense of a national customary law, distinct from the common law of England as adopted by the several States each for itself, applied as its local law, and subject to such alteration as may be provided by its own statutes. . . . There is, however, one clear exception to the statement that there is no national common law. The interpretation of the Constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history.”

and

“In United States v. Rhodes (1866), Mr. Justice Swayne, sitting in the Circuit Court, said:

“All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is the common law of this country, as well as of England. . . . We find no warrant for the opinion [p663] that this great principle of the common law has ever been changed in the United States. It has always obtained here with the same vigor, and subject only to the same exceptions, since as before the Revolution.”

and

“Before our Revolution, all free persons born within the dominions of the King of Great Britain, whatever their color or complexion, were native-born British subjects; those born out of his allegiance were aliens. . . . Upon the Revolution, no other change took place in the law of North Carolina than was consequent upon the transition from a colony dependent on an European King to a free and sovereign [p664] State; . . . British subjects in North Carolina became North Carolina freemen; . . . and all free persons born within the State are born citizens of the State. . . . The term “citizen,” as understood in our law, is precisely analogous to the term “subject” in the common law, and the change of phrase has entirely resulted from the change of government.”


“And BTW, Gray ignored a quote from the opinion of the court in Inglis v. Sailors’ Snug Harbor in which the court followed the Law of Nations...”

“Upon the whole, upon the point of alienage as presented in the case, the following are my opinions under the various postures of the facts.

1. That if the demandant was born before 4 July, 1776, he was born a British subject.

2. That if he was born after 4 July, 1776, and before 15 September, 1776, he was born an American citizen, and that it makes no difference in this respect whether or not parents had at the time of his birth elected to become citizens of the State of New York by manifesting an intention of becoming permanently members thereof in the sense which I have endeavored to explain.

3. That if the demandant was born after 15 September, 1776, when the British took possession of New York, and while his parents were there residing under the protection of and adhering to the British Crown as subjects, de facto he was born a British subject, even though his parents had previously become citizens of the State of New York.

4. That if the demandant was born after 15 September, 1776, and could be deemed (as I cannot admit) a citizen of the State of New York in virtue of his parents having, before the time of his birth, elected to become citizens of that state, still his national character was derivative from his parents, and was under the peculiar circumstances of this case, liable to be changed during the Revolutionary War, and that if his parents reverted to their original character as British subjects and adhered to the British Crown, his allegiance was finally fixed with theirs by the treaty of peace.”

This was a case concerning someone born in NY, but the time was important, since NY was a part of the US at times during the Revolutionary War, and at times subject to Britain. Again, it was the time & location of birth that mattered.

Had Vattel mattered, it would be irrelevant, since he would automatically follow his parent’s citizenship.


101 posted on 09/17/2011 9:57:45 AM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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