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To: edge919; org.whodat
You make statements about WKA, but give no support. This began when org.whodat posted that "the courts sent the children of coolies back to china" and I pointed out that the WKA decision put an end to that. Are you, like org.whodat, disputing that?

Gray also distinguished 14th amendment citizenship as being different from natural born citizenship. The former, he said, is defined by the Constitution, while the latter is defined OUTSIDE of the Constitution.

I don't see Gray saying the two types are different, rather he says [emphasis added to several quotes]

The Constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words, either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except insofar as this is done by the affirmative declaration that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States." In this as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the Constitution.
In the forefront both of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution and of the Civil Rights Act of 1866, the fundamental principle of citizenship by birth within the dominion was reaffirmed in the most explicit and comprehensive terms.
The foregoing considerations and authorities irresistibly lead us to these conclusions: the Fourteenth Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory,

you missed an important factor in the decision in that permanent domicil and residence was necessary in order to meet the subject clause of the 14th amendment (see bolded part above).

The part you bolded does not invalidate what I said to org.whodat, nor does it invalidate Marco Rubio's natural born status, as his parents were domiciled in the US. I also found discussion in the case that would suggest even that isn't necessary, and that Gray was merely describing the situation for this case in your quote. Note my emphasis:

the Fourteenth Amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes.
The exceptions are listed. Does Rubio fall under any of these? No.
140 posted on 09/08/2011 5:02:29 AM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: sometime lurker
I don't see Gray saying the two types are different ...

You need to read all the words in the decision. Gray is clear.

In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said: "The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that."

Are you comprehending this?? The Constitution does NOT define NBC. Later, Gray says:

But citizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the Constitution. Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization.

The "circumstances" Gray is referring to is the citizenship clause in the 14th amendment, which is IN the Constitution. Read it again. When construing the 14th amendment, the Minor court said that NBC is NOT defined by the Constitution. What Gray calls "citizenship by birth" is a type of citizenship that IS defined by the Constitution, specifically by the 14th amendment. It is dependent on satisfying the subject clause, which is accomplished when the parents have permanent residence and domicil, which he explains here:

It necessarily follows that persons born in China, subjects of the Emperor of China but domiciled in the United States, having been adjudged, in Yick Wo v. Hopkins to be within the jurisdiction of the State within the meaning of the concluding sentence, must be held to be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of the first sentence of this section of the Constitution, and their children "born in the United States" cannot be less "subject to the jurisdiction thereof."

NBCs are not dependent on the 14th amendment for citizenship, which is what the Minor decision said and Gray affirmed, when he said the Supreme Court was:

.. committed to the view that all children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of foreign States were excluded from the operation of the first sentence of the Fourteenth Amendment ...

The first sentence of the 14th amendment is the citizenship clause. NBCs are EXCLUDED from the operation of this clause.

173 posted on 09/08/2011 1:09:03 PM PDT by edge919
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