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To: DiogenesLamp
"Funny, I supplied you with far more than three in our last discussion of the matter. Have you forgotten already?

You supplied nothing which I regarded with any credibility.

I noticed you liked to decide that any reference contradicting your position "wasn't credible," "was wrongly decided," or the author "was a silly bastard," or simply didn't understand the issue as well as you did. You've already put the following in that category:


170 posted on 08/30/2011 4:00:40 PM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: sometime lurker
Senator Williams during the 14th amendment debate Senator Morrill during the 14th amendment debate Edward Bates, Attorney General, letter to the Secretary of the Treasury, November 29, 1862

If you have comments from these people who support your position, post them and I will add it to the "Con" category.

As for Madison, I already have him on that list. (even though he voted for the "naturalization act of 1790 which has no part of "jus soli" in it, and therefore completely contradicts his stated position in his speech.)
As for Justice Joseph Story in Inglis v. Trustees of Sailor's Snug Harbor, 28 U.S. 99 (1830), It regards the citizenship of a person born during the transition from English law to American law, so is proof of nothing. All of the founders were born British subjects in Accordance with English law. Also regarding Justice Story, he was a member of the Supreme court when the Venus Case was decided. During it, CHIEF JUSTICE MARSHALL Quotes the salient passage from Vattel:

"Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says"

"The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights."

See for yourself:
http://supreme.justia.com/us/12/253/case.html

As for St George Tucker, He said this:

That provision in the constitution which requires that the president shall be a native-born citizen (unless he were a citizen of the United States when the constitution was adopted,) is a happy means of security against foreign influence, which, wherever it is capable of being exerted, is to he dreaded more than the plague. The admission of foreigners into our councils, consequently, cannot be too much guarded against; their total exclusion from a station to which foreign nations have been accustomed to, attach ideas of sovereign power, sacredness of character, and hereditary right, is a measure of the most consummate policy and wisdom. … The title of king, prince, emperor, or czar, without the smallest addition to his powers, would have rendered him a member of the fraternity of crowned heads: their common cause has more than once threatened the desolation of Europe. To have added a member to this sacred family in America, would have invited and perpetuated among us all the evils of Pandora’s Box.

Something tells me that St. George Tucker would be none too quick to support your boy's claim for President. It seems that when you think you have men who support your side, they also seem to support the other side. At most, your references seem ambiguous and often contradictory, while the quotes I provide seem certain and absolute, with little question as to their meaning. The Chief Justice of the SUPREME COURT QUOTES VATTEL ON CITIZENSHIP! For crying out loud! You can't get any more direct than that.

261 posted on 08/31/2011 6:58:35 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (1790 Congress: No children of a foreign father may be a citizen.)
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