Posted on 08/29/2011 7:22:55 AM PDT by Poundstone
I earned these 'entitlements'
I believe that most citizens do not understand what a federal entitlement program is. There are earned entitlements versus a special government entitlement that is given to an individual who needs assistance that is mandated by law.
What is a government entitlement? Note below that some are free and some are not! Why the government is lumping these programs together is beyond me: Only Congress would think this was a proper thing to do. How can a program like military retirement be linked with food stamps? The programs I am associated with should never be diminished by the federal government because they are either paid for by me and my wife or I have earned them. Most citizens believe all the federal entitlements are giveaway social programs and that is not true.
(Excerpt) Read more at redding.com ...
You either picked the wrong post of mine to respond to or you picked me incorrectly. I am not doing anything but stating reality. You were stolen from to provide welfare payments to those that were no longer productive. I am being stolen from to proved welfare payments to those that are not productive today. The government is the theif. You and I simply lose. Period.
How do we change that? The first step is to admit the truth, then we can triage what put is in the situation and then WE can ensure it does not continue to happen.
“Social Security (under SSI), Medicare and Medicaid (MediCal in California) have been so ‘prostituted’ and ‘bastardized’ from their intent that they no longer resemble their original purpose.”
I’m pretty sure they’re right on track according to their original purpose. Maybe not according to how they were sold, but then again the fact that they called it “insurance” should have been a tip-off. If it really was insurance, then someone would be able to make a profit off them, right? Then why would the government have to run them, except for all the usual reasons?
These threads always get heated. They shouldn’t be. No one is a thief or a liar or greedy. Seniors and military pensioners are not receiving “Welfare”. They are not bums with their hands out. For the most part they are decent people who paid taxes their whole lives and expected a Social Security check at age 65. Some will be in a lot of trouble if Social Security is taken away and no one should do that.
But on the other side of the coin, seniors can’t just keep repeating “I paid in so I should get back what I paid.” Posters who say that should explain who is going to pay that amount. Its not “politicians” and its not “the government” and its not “the people who promised it to me.” They are dead and there is no money other than tax money. That is the reality that seniors and those close to retirement can’t deny or avoid. Simply repeating “I paid in” isn’t going to change that reality.
So if you are asking for full benefits at age 65 or 66, you are asking your children and grandchildren to pay higher taxes. Period. No one is asking seniors to cut their Social Security check in half. The plans are to raise the retirement age and means test. And perhaps curtail future increases in payments.
So what is the specific issue? Is it means testing? That seems like it would be the one thing that would anger seniors who “paid in”. OK, if you don’t want means testing, then what is the solution? Raising taxes on the young? To keep entitlement spending where it is, federal taxes would have to be raised to 50% of GDP within the next 30 years. Is that what you want for your grandkids?
Rest assured that if I am still alive 30 years from now, I will NOT blame you. ; )
(/dripping, acid sarcasm)
OK, you feel entitled to your full SS benefit.
Who should pay for it?
I hope you recognize the cold, hard fact that there's no pile of cash in D.C. from which your benefit can be paid from; only current tax receipts and money that the Feds are borrowing.
The workers of today are generating the current tax receipts while children and the as-yet unborn will have to pay back the borrowed money.
So, again, who should pay in order for you to receive the full amount you feel entitled to?
“I don’t know whether there is a contractual obligation to pay for military or civil service retirements”
The problem with contracts with the government is that you’d have to sue to get them enforced, and the government runs the courts. They don’t like to be sued, and invoke a bastardized 11th amendment in their defense. Only civil rights cases routinely run the gauntlet.
And I'm not trying to minimize the size of the shaft you are getting with it. You state the absurdity of the system eloquently above without resorting to exaggeration.
“There is no such thing as an ‘earned’ entitlement - the Supreme Court has spoken definitively on the matter that SS is just another tax and entitles the payer to nothing at all.”
Which should have been clear all along, and indeed has been clear to various people from the time it was proposed through all its various changes. The fact that it could have tricked so many people into thinking it was their own money coming back to them, particularly on this board, is beyond me.
For starters, cut off ALL aid to illegal invaders of this country. Not only cut it off, but start enforcing our borders. Billions are spent yearly in just LA alone for schooling, welfare, and the crime they bring (and includes the amount for jailing them). Cut off ALL aid to countries that want to kill us. Cut off ALL social security disability. Cut off ALL welfare for anyone who’s able-bodied. Just for starters. But no one talks about that, or very few do. Just cut off the retirees. Probably because they figure we won’t riot as a result, and they’re probably right. I guess that makes us the easiest target.
So, because you were stolen from you are OK with stealing from others. OK, got it....NO need to convince me further. By the same token is it acceptable for rape victims to be legally allowed to commit rape?
Twisting words won’t make it so.
“Yeah, how silly of me to think I should count on being repaid for all I paid into the social security system.”
One more thing, yes I think you are very silly for counting on the government for ANYTHING EVER! I would say the same to anyone. We should all know that the government is not to be trusted, in any capacity at any time! Their only method of enforcement is with the force of guns, so you must be willing to have the government KILL me to provide for your social security payments.
Every action that the government takes, at any level, is only enforcable by coercive force, in other words at the point of a gun. So, you are arguing that you are willing to authorize the government to kill me in order to take my money and send it over to you.
Yeah, I’d say that’s pretty silly.
Things will reach a point where our grandkids and great-grandkids will no doubt treat Baby Boomers with the same lack of mercy that the Baby Boomers showed them.
Everyone talks so casually about tossing future responsibilities on defenseless children. Guess what? They won't be defenseless in 20 years. Guess who will be?
The idea that so many Americans are willing to enslave their own progeny is all the moral imperative that progeny need to pull the plug on them, figuratively and literally. And I wouldn't blame them a bit. The kids who we so callously intended to imprison with crushing poverty and debt will be better off putting America's heartless elderly to the sword. It won't take them much reckoning to figure that out.
“I am sick and tired of people calling me greedy for wanting nothing more than what I paid into socialist security”
What you paid into Social Security isn’t there waiting for you. It was used to pay for this or that, including the retirements of other people while you were working. You are greedy for wanting still other people to pay for you, especially since obviously the system is bankrupt.
Are you claiming that you were not stolen from? Are you stating that I am not being stolen from? Are you claiming taht neither you nor I have been stolen from?
Which is it? You can only answer yes to the above in some combination or your claim of me twisting your words falls apart. So step up, tell us who is not being stolen from...
No it does not. What we have now is a corrupt goverment who picks and chooses which laws are to be obeyed and by whom and they now do the same with contracts. The three branches have morphed into one now that the SC and all the judges throughout the land are as corrupt as the pols.
It wont end well, all pensions suspended, all 401s seized, SS will be reduced and we will all be one bug happy diverse family
You are pitted against government employees who think they should get their promised pensions. Government has the guns and we have given them the authority to use them.
I know there is waste and fraud and people in the system that should not be getting a penny. It won’t change the mathematics if you were to weed them out.
This all started 70 years ago with a harmless little program designed to supplement peoples retirement. They knew full well where it would end up.
Good point and well said. Powerfully sad, but I am very afraid that you are most likely correct. Heck, this same generation has been told to prioritize death over life for their entire lives....it will lead to nowhere but evil....
“people that paid into social security are due some amount back that is more then a pittance.”
Why? I paid into the military, education, infrastructure, energy, the protection of endangered habitats, and a million other things that couldn’t matter less, and I don’t get anything back for them.
Interesting but irrelevant. Doing all those things still won't fix the Ponzi scheme that is Social Security.
Again, who should pay for your benefits?
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