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To: cc2k
However, Mr. Martin is a big Democrat contributor. Strangely, his business was not raided/searched this week for using this wood.

That's because simply using the wood isn't illegal. And likely because C. F. Martin had the correct paperwork and followed the rules to use the wood. Martin has a heck of a lot more experience using East Indian Rosewood on its guitars and dealing with the regulations and paperwork; Gibson makes the J-45, J-185 Rosewood and J-165 Rosewood in East Indian Rosewood (Martin makes 51 East Indian Rosewood models), the premier Gibson models (J-200, L-200, Dove, Hummingbird, Southern Jumbo) are made of mahogany or maple.

Martin also produces many more acoustic guitars each day than Gibson does (Gibson has a strong line of electric guitars, mandolins, banjos, and capital "D" Dobros - a trade name, and some acoustic guitars). Gibson makes 60 acoustic models, total; Martin makes twenty different body shapes and over 50 different models within the D14 body shape alone.

Gibson's CEO is known - and was known before he got into the guitar business - for being a pretty aggressive businessman.

Plus, it may be that Gibson's cutting compliance corners due to its financial situation after the flood in Nashville. Gibson lost everything at Opryland Mills. Not only production, but forms and molds. Mandolin and banjo production was shut down. There were talks of Huber talking over Gibson banjos - then talks of sale of the Gibson banjo line to a Chinese buyer.

No, there's a lot I think this administration is capable of, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

In this case, my guess is that Gibson simply cut corners.

29 posted on 08/27/2011 12:44:23 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Scoutmaster

Interesting that, in Gibson’s hour of dire need, the 0bama administration chose to raid them over a nit-picking and questionable point of bureaucratic regulatory procedure and compliance rather than help them out and save some jobs. Ho hum, another day in the “Oval Office” [ note - known during the Klinton administration as the “Oval Orifice” ]

It is true of all politicians. Ignore what they say, just watch what they do.


33 posted on 08/27/2011 12:55:15 PM PDT by Senator John Blutarski
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To: Scoutmaster
Of course, you can use East Indian Rosewood for fretboards. I'll take ebony first. I'll take maple on a Telecaster or a Stratocaster before the rosewood option. But you can use it on fretboards.

Funny how Fender wasn't raided, when it uses all of that rosewood on fretboards. And how Guild wasn't raided, or the smaller luthiers like Collings, and Goodall, and Olson, and Froggy Bottom, and . . .

But they probably had the paperwork straight and obeyed the rules, no matter how arcane, unlike Gibson.

Seems to make a lot more sense than immediately assuming this was a targeted hit because of Republican donations.

34 posted on 08/27/2011 12:56:42 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Scoutmaster
Scoutmaster wrote:
That's because simply using the wood isn't illegal. And likely because C. F. Martin had the correct paperwork and followed the rules to use the wood.
I think that Gibson had the proper paperwork as well. Their website has more information on this. They have a Press Release about it, and a public response page that includes a 35-ish minute video.

There, it says that they had propper documentation, and that even authorities in India were OK with what was being done. The problem seems to be that US authorities have a different interpretation of Indian trade law.

If I'm reading other comments and other sources correctly, Gibson wasn't happy with the finish when they ordered the parts from India, so they ordered them slightly thicker than needed, but still finished by Indian workers. Then, when the parts arrived in Memphis, Gibson workers refinished the pieces to a higher quality specification. I might be missing something there.

The government is also holding a significant amount of ebony fingerboards from the 2009 raid of the Gibson facility in Nashville, and has not filed any charges or prosecuted anyone. But they refuse to release the wood back to Gibson.

There's something wrong with this whole arrangement. We shouldn't have to have documentation filed with the Kings agents to make a guitar, and the King shouldn't be able to seize our assets if our paperwork isn't absolutely perfect. I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where it says Congress can tell a manufacturer what materials it can use to make it's products, or what special paperwork must be on file to make guitars out of (*Gasp*) wood.

38 posted on 08/27/2011 1:09:08 PM PDT by cc2k ( If having an "R" makes you conservative, does walking into a barn make you a horse's (_*_)?)
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To: Scoutmaster
All this started long before the big O got elected. Gibson when it pulled that crap about how much stock you had to buy to be a dealer, really upset a lot of small guitar business. And in this case, Gibson hands are not as clean as some think.
54 posted on 08/27/2011 3:05:35 PM PDT by JimC214
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