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To: 10thAmendmentGuy

You’re nuts, right? You think drug users should be punished for events that happened more than 40 years ago? Perhaps if such punishments had been on the books in those days, those days would have been a lot different.

You just don’t like the idea of any restrictions on drugs. I trotted out my history so you would know that I have personal experience with some drugs, as well as knowing many others with personal experience, many of who were not so fortunate as to give it all up. I also know three people with Hep C from shooting up, one died so far, one has cancer from it, and one has slowly failing health. And at this point in my life I don’t even meet drug users; these are all people who gave up drugs 2 or more decades ago.

The bottom line is that drugs are not useful, not beneficial and not harmless. Of course there are legitimate uses for various derivatives, such as opiate pain killers. But I’m referring to recreational use. I am opposed to how the WOD is currently - should not be fedgov, and it’s all makeshow (up at the top, I’m sure many of the people doing the hard work are trying their best to do the job they were hired to do). But it’s patently obvious that those at the top do not want to eliminate drugs coming in over the borders, nor do they want drugs really eliminated.

It would ruin their cash cow and since banksters and the politicians they pay are ruling what goes on, the nasty charade continues.

One thing that is vital is the gov needs to stop paying people to be idle parasites.


145 posted on 08/30/2011 2:21:41 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah

New tagline ...


146 posted on 08/30/2011 2:24:47 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The GOP elites have already decided for you, obligatory lip service notwithstanding.)
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To: little jeremiah
Obviously I was being facetious. You don't honestly think that I support drug users being punished for events 40 years ago, do you? When I don't even support punishing them for events that occurred yesterday? No, I don't want you punished for your youthful "indiscretions." I find the very idea of punishing drug users while we let murderers and rapists and DWI offenders out on the street to be DISGUSTING. I support executing murderers, rapists and child molesters within 2 years after a conviction. I support imprisoning kidnappers for life and armed robbers for 40 years if it is a first offense, and life if it is not. I support putting people who drive drunk or drugged in prison, instead of punishing the people who use drugs and alcohol responsibly. How fair is it that someone who sells crack cocaine to an undercover detective receives a sentence that can be up to three times longer than that of someone who commits vehicular homicide while under the influence of alcohol or drug?

Not very fair at all, obviously. What right do politicians have to expose the citizenry to an increased risk of being raped and murdered? The risk doesn't just come from those paroled early from prison, but if I don't live in a great neighborhood, I run the risk of being gunned down in a drive-by shooting. The media would undoubtedly consider me to be a tragic victim and would blame the incident on drugs.

I'd just like you to see that I and many others view it as a little bit hypocritical. I've criticized Obama before for doing enough cocaine in his youth to kill a small horse yet advocating jail for cocaine users. Here's a couple of on-point quotes from a Guardian article:

"Barack Obama, is characteristically less convoluted: "Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. I inhaled frequently. That was the point."

"Also among the US contingent are the firebrand Republican Newt Gingrich, who reportedly said: 'When I smoked pot it was illegal but not immoral. Now it is illegal and immoral. The law didn't change, only the morality. That's why you get to go to jail and I don't.' "

How can this examples be construed as anything other than blatant hypocrisy?

The least we could do is distinguish between drug users and drug dealers. Drug dealers, except those that just grow a little marijuana on the side with no connections to Mexican cartels or terrorist groups, are scumbags. Drug users, if they are addicts, are to be pitied and helped with private charity, not imprisoned. If they are not addicts, they should be left alone to go about their lives without fear of having a career ruined because they chose to smoke a joint after they got home. I fully support abolishing the welfare state so that people who are drug addicts cannot freeload off the system. Too many conservatives, however, say that abolishing the welfare state is a prerequisite to drug legalization, when they, in fact, have no intention of ever agreeing to the latter.

I do support restrictions on drugs. Thomas Sowell makes that point in his article, put into video form here:

Thomas Sowell on the Drug War

Sowell correctly makes the point that drugs can be regulated for content, age required for purchasing, driving under the influence, etc. Teenagers can get marijuana easier than they can get alcohol in many places.

I have a couple of major problems with your plan. First, you don't distinguish between drugs. You advocate letting people grow poppies, when can be used to make morphine, obviously the primary ingredient in heroin. Yet you say that you would execute someone for dealing drugs, presumably including marijuana. If someone grows marijuana in their backyard (assuming it is legal), and they sell some to their neighbor who doesn't have the time to grow it himself, that person should be executed? I think approximately 95-98% of Americans would have a real problem with that, considering 35% of Americans oppose the death penalty in principle, and probably another 35-40% only support it for murder.

The primary problem with your plan, however, is that you don't eliminate the black markets. If possessing anything but homegrown marijuana or opiates and opiate derivatives with every other currently illicit drug remaining illegal (punishable by caning), then you still get the thousands of murders a year that are directly attributable to the drug war, because cartels will still import tons of marijuana to sell to those who don't have the time to grow it themselves. You still get the innocent victims of drive-by shootings and SWAT raids by overmilitarized police forces.

In all honesty, however, certainly you must know that this is a moot point. I'm guessing from your posts that you're in your late 50s or early 60s. As I've said on here before, marijuana legalization is going to happen in the next 15 years. The senior citizens are going to die off from natural causes (unless ObamaCare gets them first), and the majority of voters will be in favor of legalizing it. Nationwide polls show that 70% of Americans under 30 support legalizing it, and around 55% oppose the current War on Drugs. Look how close California came to doing exactly that last year. Proposition 19 won 46.5% of the vote, in a year in which youth turnout was down and older people turned out in great numbers to vote for the Tea Party. And it still got 46.5% of the vote.

This generation doesn't want to replace it with something like your plan, they want to eliminate it. Those of us under 30 don't buy the government's lies and fear-mongering about how marijuana is 10 times stronger than it was when you used it. First of all, even if it was true, that would be a good thing. For those who smoke it, higher concentrations mean that they have to inhale less frequently, which results in less lung damage. Simple demographics will overwhelm any opposition on the part of WODers, as well as constitutional conservatives like yourself. If we succeed in overturning Roe v. Wade, I think that abortion will be made illegal in at least 35 states, with exceptions for cases of rape, incest and to save the life of the mother.

My generation seems to be much more pro-life than the baby boomers are, from talking to them. It's also a much more pro-homosexual generation, obviously, but you take the good with the bad. Getting back to the actual topic of this thread for a minute, what people your age should understand is that people my age (late 20s) have never known an America in which homosexuality wasn't at least accepted by a plurality of Americans in vast swaths of the country. Indeed, while I don't approve of the lifestyle, I have no problem being friends with them, because I can accept the sin while loving the sinner. And I'm actually in the 90th percentile for conservatism when it comes to my generation, a generation that voted 2 to 1 in favor of Obama. I think that 75% of my generation actually supports homosexual marriage. That's going to be a very hard thing to overcome, because of the demographic trends that I already mentioned. I hope they change their mind, because we don't have much time to clean up the messes made by the baby boomer politicians.

148 posted on 08/30/2011 7:13:39 PM PDT by 10thAmendmentGuy ("[Drug] crusaders cannot accept the fact that they are not God." -Thomas Sowell)
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To: little jeremiah
(up at the top, I’m sure many of the people doing the hard work are trying their best to do the job they were hired to do)

Also, the DEA rank and file should not be respected, any more than the FBI agents or BATFags should be. They work for unconstitutional agencies. How can I respect someone who knowingly works for an unconstitutional agency that subverts the Second Amendment and Tenth Amendment rights of its citizens? You can throw them all in the same boat. Don't you remember Ruby Ridge and Waco? The DEA has killed innocent people as well but the media keeps a real tight lid on that.

150 posted on 08/30/2011 7:18:28 PM PDT by 10thAmendmentGuy ("[Drug] crusaders cannot accept the fact that they are not God." -Thomas Sowell)
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