Cops Saw Video of Deadly Incident With Kelly Thomas Before Writing Reports

The Los Angeles Times ^ | August 12, 2011 | Richard Winton and Abby Sewel

[truthkeeper]

Fullerton's acting police chief acknowledged Thursday that the department had allowed police officers involved in a deadly encounter with a homeless man to watch a video that captures the incident before writing their reports about it.

Acting Chief Kevin Hamilton said supervisors allowed the review so that the officers would have a chance to refresh their memory and write an accurate account of the incident involving Kelly Thomas.

But the practice is at odds with the way many other police departments deal with serious use-of-force cases. The LAPD's former inspector general, Jeffrey Eglash, said that allowing police to look at video before giving evidence is a "bad practice."

"You want each person's recollection. I would look at the videotape like another witness," he said. "It allows the officers to conform their statements to other evidence rather than getting their independent witness recollection. It is not a practice that advances the truth-seeking."

[Dr.Zoidberg]

...The police clearly know what was done was nothing less than murder. They are closing ranks, to create an illusion and lie to have those in authority accept a fiction to be the final record. It is disgusting.

I am in full agreement with you.

You simply can not trust anyone wearing a badge.

[SaraJohnson]

I’m glad you are awake and paying attention.

Corruption in police departments has to be cleared out by citizens who hold police officers to a high standard of constitutional justice and honor. This is necessary to ensure the pulbic in turn, holds a high degree of esteem and trust in police officers. Otherwise, Mexico here we come!

[La Enchiladita]

This state is screwed up.

If you are talking about California, are you aware of how often police officers are attacked in this state? They are shot, stabbed, run over by cars, have rocks and bottles thrown at them. If you need me to give you examples, you haven't been following the news. Sometimes this results in their death, sometimes in grave injuries where they are paralyzed or blinded for life. Where is the outrage over the attacks ON police officers?

[SaraJohnson]

It it is not handled through the criminal justice system and they let these guys off with no charges, civil society will take a big hit in Fullerton, Ca. There were dozens of witnesses to this alleged murder. Civil charges are better than nothing but that is not justice.

[La Enchiladita]

If you want FPD to release the video in question NOW and you also wish the 6 police officers to be charged and go on trial, you can’t have it both ways. The video would be preserved as evidence for the trial.

It just seems that the angry mob types don’t want to wait for a trial, and are trying the police officers on the internet and in the news.

And when it comes to evidence, I would like to know how many calls were made to 911 on the night in question. What incident was being reported, an actual burglary or attempted burglary? Did the calls identify Kelly Thomas as a suspect. There was a reason or reasons that calls were made to 9-1-1. But media and the angy mob are not interested in that evidence.

Conclusive autopsy results would also be important evidence.

But, as I said, if you want the officers charged and put on trial, then you have to wait for the trial to review the evidence.

[La Enchiladita]

You do not know that it was murder. The autopsy results are not final. There needs to be substantial evidence before anyone can be charged with a crime here. There needs to be motive in order to charge homicide; i.e., INTENT to kill. Intent is key in determining guilt.

You might want to step back a bit from accepting all that John and Ken are dishing out on this case. As I said in my previous post, the video cannot be released if it is going to be eventually used in a trial of any or all of the police officers.

[La Enchiladita]

The simple fact remains that you do not have the facts in this case, nor do I nor does anyone else commenting on this thread. The story given out by talk radio and the news media jumped to the conclusion that the FPD officers beat Kelly Thomas to death and that “something should be done” about it. What I see is that the civilians discussing the incident are attaching their pre-conceived notions and beliefs about “police brutality” and schizophrenics to the story line, using it as a soap box.

I notice that you omit Kelly Thomas’s criminally violent past, including the fact that he tried to choke his mother resulting in a restraining order issued against him. His parents are presumably housed and yet tolerated Kelly living on the street rather than with them. Why, because they were afraid of him.

I am not saying that Kelly deserved to die a horrible death, but whether it was a direct result of the struggle at the time of his arrest has not been determined.

I see much more excitement in impugning and attacking the police than I see of genuine grief at the loss of a human life. I think Kelly was failed by several people prior to the arrest incident.

His father Ron has called for the death penalty for one or more of the police officers. He published their names and photos. He rejoices that the police chief has gone on medical leave, and calls for the resignation of the Fullerton mayor. Ron Thomas has full use of the media platform at any time he wishes. This has been an entirely one-sided presentation of a story, and in my view Ron Thomas’s crusade has an unwholesome flavor.

[starlifter]

Let’s take a look at the facts as provided by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0242.pdf) for 2009.
In ALL industries there were 542 homicides in 2009 - 462 were in private industry. Areas included construction, manufacturing, wholesale trade, retail trade, transportation and warehousing, professional and business services, administration, leisure and hospitality.

There were 80 homicides in government. 18 were in the federal government. 7 were in state government, though none were police. Local government had 55 homicides, of which 48 were public safety, aka police. Curiously more police died in traffic accidents than were shot.

So, the implication that police have a particularly hazardous occupation is not borne out by the facts.

[Wolfstar]

I notice that you omit Kelly Thomas’s criminally violent past, including the fact that he tried to choke his mother resulting in a restraining order issued against him.

Police officers CANNOT LEGALLY, nor should the public tolerate it when they act as judge, jury and executioner. Kelly Thomas' past does not give a half-dozen or so cops the right to do this to him:

His parents are presumably housed and yet tolerated Kelly living on the street rather than with them. Why, because they were afraid of him.

Judgmental much? Our whole wretched "system" of not allowing long-term commitment of the mentally ill is a causative factor in such cases. Kelly Thomas was an adult. His parents could do very little to help him unless he accepted help. They could not force him to live at home, or take his meds, or get treatment. All they could do was watch the deterioration of their once beautiful baby boy. There is no help for families in such situations.

I am not saying that Kelly deserved to die a horrible death...

Yes you are. Worse, what you and others with your blindly pro cop viewpoint are doing is this...you're saying cops can pretty much do anything they want, and the citizenry needs to just shut up and not question what they do. Half a dozen cops beat an unarmed man to death? No biggie. The man was just some homeless schizo with a violent past.

in my view Ron Thomas’s crusade has an unwholesome flavor

Schizophrenia is a bona fide brain disease that usually hits young people in their late teens or eary 20's. Don't know if you're capable of putting yourself in the place of parents who raise a beloved child to that age, then watch them deteriorate mentally almost overnight with a disease that has no cure. Then, on top of that, parents discover there isn't anything they can do once their sick child reaches adulthood. If you have not experienced it personally, then you can't even begin to understand the hell parents in such a situation go through.

The last words Mr. Thomas' son ever uttered were, "Dad, dad, dad..." as cops were beating him into a coma from which he would never recover. So how the hell can you sit around judging Mr. Thomas and the way he is dealing with his grief and anguish?

Once again, blind acceptance of authority and police actions is NOT a constitutionally conservative position. Quite the opposite. It is exactly such blind acceptance that opens the door to totalitarianism.

[Wolfstar]

Thank you. :)

[markman46]

ya unfortunately corruption is rather rampant in the OC, Fullerton just happen to be written about, Irvine is an really big problem

[SaraJohnson]

I’m sorry to hear that. If you and your friends can just focus on cleaning up your town, that would be good. Reclaim one piece of Mexifornia for the Republic. :)

[truthkeeper]

Once again, blind acceptance of authority and police actions is NOT a constitutionally conservative position.

Bears repeating.

[Ernie Kaputnik]

Excellent post. Thank you.

[Texas Eagle]

Hmmmmm...interesting point. I admit I hadn't thought of that.

I hereby rescind my criticism of California's finest Union members.

I now endorse the practice of Police Officers watching people drown and beating citizens to death.

[starlifter]

“His father Ron has called for the death penalty for one or more of the police officers. He published their names and photos. He rejoices that the police chief has gone on medical leave, and calls for the resignation of the Fullerton mayor. Ron Thomas has full use of the media platform at any time he wishes. This has been an entirely one-sided presentation of a story, and in my view Ron Thomas’s crusade has an unwholesome flavor.”

The cops have used and continue to use the media to put their spin on the story. It is is shamefully one-sided. To claim that is MIGHT be the result of a struggle at the time of his death is shameful and appears to willfully ignore the facts.

Rather than finding Mr Thomas “crusade” to have an “unwholesome flavor”, I firmly believe he should be commended. These six police officers violently beat a man, causing his death. I for one am pleased that he pulled back the blue-cloak of anonymity and arrogance that seeks to cover-up the murder of a human being. I am glad their photos are posted for all to see...I hope he publishes their address too so their neighbors can appreciate - and fear - the people who live nearby.

[La Enchiladita]

I guess you’ve written a term paper, or maybe even a doctoral thesis, explicating conservatism and that is what makes you so high and mighty.

Well, does total intolerance for differing points of view also fit in with your conservative template? Just wondering.

While you’re busy on that Ph.D., learn to read. Nowhere did I state a “blindly” pro-cop point of view. An investigation is in progress. I would accept the results of the investigation being done internally, by the FBI and by independent sources. I advocate transparency and consideration of all the facts.

One of the morning radio ranters on KFI wondered why the investigation is “taking so long.” It needs to be thorough... duh. He stated they don’t need to question witnesses, all they need to do is view the videotape. Why talk to witnesses,? he wondered. Really, I wonder if the guy can tie his own shoes.

The investigation, and possibly a trial, needs to interview everyone starting with the original callers to 9-1-1, all medical personnel on scene and in the hospital, bystanders and so forth.

Anyone who was not there or not involved does not have the info those witnesses have. But you and the angry mob want to bypass all available information and the investigation and I guess a trial, because YOU have made yourselves “judge, jury and executioner.”

[La Enchiladita]

Oh, and one more thing. Rather than me being "blindly accepting of police authority" or however you worded your invective, this thread and other threads on police-involved incidents --- even when officers are injured or killed --- always bring out decidedly and thoroughly ANTI-COP posters.

[truthkeeper]

I am glad their photos are posted for all to see...I hope he publishes their address too so their neighbors can appreciate - and fear - the people who live nearby.

It was news to me that the officers' photos have been posted anywhere. In fact, I just did a google search on this and zip, zero, nada. If you could point me to a link I'd appreciate it and would check it out.

[Wolfstar]

I guess you’ve written a term paper, or maybe even a doctoral thesis, explicating conservatism and that is what makes you so high and mighty.

So let me get this straight. You resent an articulate, thoughtful response to your posts. I think it's beneath you, Enchiladita, to expect replies only from people who are not articulate.

Well, does total intolerance for differing points of view also fit in with your conservative template?

Disagreement with someone's point of view does not equal intolerance for differing points of view. Disagreement and intolerance are two entirely different qualities. Although I have to observe that you seem genuinely intolerant of the point of view that I and others expressed about the cops who beat this man to death. People who call KFI are "ranters" in your opinion Others protesting what happened are "an angry mob." Judgmental and intolerant, much?