Posted on 08/08/2011 3:51:08 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
What colour is Mark Duggan? Mark Duggan is the man who was shot dead by the police on Thursday in Tottenham. The Tottenham riots last night were sparked when people protested his death. This morning, I first heard of the riots on the radio, then on the television. I read articles on the internet. But oddly, no one would say what colour Mark Duggan was. No one would say the unsayable, that the rioters were, I suspect on the whole, black. Then, finally, Toby Young’s Telegraph blog post on the riots was published. Is Toby Young the only journalist out there who will dare say that these riots are about race?
Still, one paper did carry a photo of Mr Duggan. When I saw the photo, it confirmed what I knew instinctively: black youths once again have set London alight.
Some of the black kids I used to teach will tell you that the riots are absolutely justified. A number of adults would agree with them. Everywhere I read that the protest was understandable because “people are very angry”.
I’d like to know what they’re angry about. Mark Duggan is dead. He was shot by the police in a shootout. Duggan was in a minicab and shots were fired from both the cab and the police elsewhere. A police officer was hurt in the incident and a bullet was found lodged in a police radio. Either Duggan was shooting at the police or the driver of the minicab was. Either Duggan was in the wrong place at the wrong time and his death is a terrible tragedy – he was caught in the crossfire – or he shot at the police and the police defended themselves. Whatever the explanation, the police did not kill this man in cold blood.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
Also in every major and minor city in the US. They just need an uniting catalyst. E.G. entitlements end, BO is not reelected, etc.
It’s called the culture war. We are losing. One color under God! /s
Most of the car burnings are just insurance fraud. Want a new car paid for by your insurance company? Put on a mask and burn your current car. Business not doing so good? No worries just put on a mask and burn down your building. The insurance company will pay the bill!
"Well, that explains why London isn't known as a hotbed of black race riots."
The average annual rainfall in London is 29 inches. I suspect it would surprise many Americans, with deep-rooted convictions about British weather, to know that this is less than the rainfall in New York City, Washington D.C., Chicago or Dallas.
No, the majority of British people are well aware of their imperial/colonial past. It has been used as a weapon of national self-loathing for 40 years.
What some British want is the US to admit that it has at times in its history behaved like a colonial power, instead of the denial Americans make when America and empire are mentioned.
The Gurkhas are beloved by the vast, vast majority of the British public, across the political and racial spectrum.
Any attack on them, such as the appalling treatment of Gurkha veterans by the last govt, gets national anger and opprobrium. The Gurkhas are seen as national treasures. Rightly so.
And the vast majority of Britain supports citizenship for Ghurkas and always has done. They are probably the one non-white group whose immigration dosent even register (because of their status and their low numbers).
The only people who oppose them are racists like the BNP. Frankly you must know some very odd and racist British people.
You assertion that the British people oppose Gurkha citizenship is an utter lie, one in fact that is causing me to barely keep this reply polite and civil.
I have read your writings on FR about Britain and frankly I find some of them dont add up. Either you cherry pick or you dont ‘get’ Britain as well as perhaps you think you do.
You had better start reading my posts a little bit more closely before you start calling me a liar, buster. If you read what I wrote correctly you would see that I was quoting one or two friends who were not happy about Gurkha citizenship. I never said anything about the entire British public. So please keep polite and civil. I would hate to have you fall into a snit like Terry-Thomas in “It’s A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World.”
My friends are all theatre professionals; some of them you may know by name. None of whom belong to the BNP or the EDL. I suppose they have just seen too many changes in their lifetime and they are hurt and bewildered and include Gurkhas in their general anger.
And, again, if you don’t think America engages in self-criticism over our recent and present past, you are living on another planet. But we do not and never have had an Empire. Great Britain did.
And if you’d like to read an orgy of self-pity towards England while expressing a blistering hatred towards America, I recommend Caryll Churchill’s short play “Drunk Enough to say I Love You.” I was forced to sit through this nasty bit of xenophobia several years ago at The Royal Court.
Those mulattos will destroy the entire nation! Damn them! They’re eevul!
I knew some Gurkhas in Seoul, Korea when I was stationed in the ROK. Even scarier than the ROKs and that’s saying something. Any rioter would be a fool to put a foot wrong with one Gurkha, much less a platoon.
I didnt saw you were a liar (now who is misreading?), I said you made statements about the UK that didnt hold up, were incorrect.
You said several friends and made a reference to their disgust being related to dark skin. At that sorry I had to object and reply, as I wont let accusations of British racism pass unchallenged. As along with Ireland, we are probably the least racist and antisemitic country in Europe, and have rejected right wing (and other) extremism from the 1930’s to 2011. Any FR’er could have taken your comment to suggest a general racist attitude in Britain.
Let alone most freepers are unaware of the love in the UK for the Gurkhas. Another point I had to make.
Re Empire, I didnt say the US was an imperial power a la the British, Roman or French empires, I said that at times the US HAS BEHAVED like a colonial power. Conquest, expansion and subjugation. Sorry, but thats a fact.
America tried to annex Canada twice(and twice got a very bloody nose). Manifest Destiny, the Mexican American war, the Spanish American war, the Phillipenes, Central and South America. America in the 19th and early 20th century was a rapacious imperial power like us in all but name.
Wasnt it Twain who said the US was behaving so badly that the Stars and Stripes?. Wasnt it Smedley Butler who said he acted like a high class thug for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers?.
I didnt saw you were a liar (now who is misreading?), I said you made statements about the UK that didnt hold up, were incorrect.
You said several friends and made a reference to their disgust being related to dark skin. At that sorry I had to object and reply, as I wont let accusations of British racism pass unchallenged. As along with Ireland, we are probably the least racist and antisemitic country in Europe, and have rejected right wing (and other) extremism from the 1930’s to 2011. Any FR’er could have taken your comment to suggest a general racist attitude in Britain.
Let alone most freepers are unaware of the love in the UK for the Gurkhas. Another point I had to make.
Re Empire, I didnt say the US was an imperial power a la the British, Roman or French empires, I said that at times the US HAS BEHAVED like a colonial power. Conquest, expansion and subjugation. Sorry, but thats a fact.
America tried to annex Canada twice(and twice got a very bloody nose). Manifest Destiny, the Mexican American war, the Spanish American war, the Phillipenes, Central and South America. America in the 19th and early 20th century was a rapacious imperial power like us in all but name.
Wasnt it Twain who said the US was behaving so badly that the Stars and Stripes should be changed for the skull and crossbones?. Wasnt it Smedley Butler who said he acted like a high class thug for American big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers?.
Here is your quote from August 8: “Your assertion that the British people oppose Gurkha citizenship is an utter lie...” Sounds like you are, indeed, calling me a liar.
Of course, I never said anything about the British people in general. I mentioned several friends who seemed concerned about Gurkha citizenship. That does not make them racists, just concerned citizens who may not be that well-informed about the Gurkha’s contributions to Great Britain.
And I most certainly NEVER said my friends showed disgust at “dark skins.” How dare you say that I wrote that in a post?
I know all about Manifest Destiny and the Mexican-American War. Personally, I support Manifest Destiny, the Mexican-American War as I do the Battle for Texas. One of my ancestors, Judah Levy, served in one of the early legislatures of Texas. During this time, we brought several of our greatest states into the Union and I’m very proud we did.
Mark Twain said many cynical things so perhaps that great writer felt a little guilty for dodging the Civil War.
As for England being a safe haven for Jews, let’s just go through a tiny bit of history: 1189-1190-Massacres of Jews in London and York. 1290, Edict of Expulsion. 1936, the Battle of Cable Street as English Jews fought British Nazis in the East End and the general British opposition to allowing Jews into the Holy Land after WWII. Now we have vile Jew hatred expressed in the Guardian and elsewhere over “that shitty little country of Israel.”
I also know there have been good times for Jews in England. But let’s not pretend that thousands of years have been overly kind to God’s chosen people.
Why are most blacks identifying with criminals?
1—Texas applied to join the US more than once and was rejected, so much so that at one point Texas considered becoming a protectorate of the British Empire.
2—In supporting MD, do you support what was done to the Native American?.
3—The stopping of Jewish immigration in 1945-46 was not due to anti-semitism and anyone know that time in history knows it. And remember how restrained the British were in Palestine and in the UK to the Jews at that time, a time when Jewish terrorists (the Irgun and the Stern) were bombing and murdering and torturing British soldiers and civilians (British, Jewish and Arab). There were no anti-semitic riots in the UK and no rise in antisemitism despite the disgust at what the Irgun et al were doing to British boys.
As for today, like many Americans, and esp conservative pro-israeli Americans, you confuse dislike of Israel and its policies with antisemitism. I dont always agree with Israel, does that make an anti-semite?.
Equally, blind support of Israel (and this gods chosen people nonsense) is not healthy.
A blinkered patriot is no patriot at all.
4—Where in England was Leo Frank lynched?.
Guess the good thing is when blacks and Arabs take over England, the silly PC liberal guilt fest will come to a screeching halt.
There is a silver lining.
Firstly, do you apologize for calling me a liar? I’ve yet to hear it although I quoted you to your face when you accused me of telling lies.
I have some sympathy for the Indians (as I like to call them) but they often gave as good as they got. Do you visit America? The Northeast is littered with burial grounds due to Indian massacres and many of the ancient homes around places like Deerfield and Salem have prototypical “panic rooms” where women and children would hide during raids. And don’t believe every story you read of disease-infected blankets. I have tremendous sympathy for the troopers sent out West to fight the Indians - many untrained immigrants led by battle-hardened Civil War generals who were bewildered by their unruly soldiers and who often had no appetite to shove Indians around - although they were ordered to do so from Washington.
I believe there was plenty of British anti-semitism behind Jewish immigration to the Holy Land, despite (or because of) the excesses of the Irgun and Stern gang. I consider myself a proud Zionist and will always support the only democracy in that crazy region. I assume from your comments that you “dislike” Israel?
No, Leo Frank was murdered here in the good ole US of A. He has been memorialized in books, plays and films. It was a shameful act but I do not blame the American people for that terrible crime. I blame the murderer and the times he lived in for what happened. But at least I acknowledge the crime. You are completely silent on the subject of English cruelty toward Jews during the Middle Ages and into Shakespeare’s time.
P.S.: You guys should have taken in Texas when they asked (if they, in fact, did ask). You would then know how to protect yourself against marauding looters in the high streets of beautiful England.
1—I dont apologise because I didnt actually call you a liar. I accused you of exaggeration and flawed extrapolation, thats different from saying you lied.
2—Oh, I know the Indians were never the passive people modern myth portrays. I was simply asking your remarks on MD, given 150 years or so of hindsight.
And I also know the blankets myth is just that: remember British America 1607-1775 is also blamed for that too.
3—No, there was not. There was great sympathy amongst Britons in 1945 to the Jews (how couldnt there be), the policy was one of Britain trying to keep Arabs happy whilst under immense pressure from the US, Jewish groups and the world. In a colony we’d only had since 1917.
The policy may have been wrong, but the notion by some now that it was deliberately antisemitic is nonsense.
And remember just who gave the world the Balfour Declaration....was it you, the French, the Germans?.....nope.
4—’I assume from your comments that you “dislike” Israel?’
How can you assume that?. I have said nothing on Israel bar that I dont agree with all their policies, just as almost all people dont agree with the policies of their own nation and allies.
Good god woman, are you actually saying that if I dont support Israel 100% all the time, I therefore dont like Israel?.
Lunacy.
And actually making my earlier ‘blind patriot’ point for me.
5—I am not been silent. I am happy to discuss the history of the Jews in England (at this juncture, I will point out there is no history of anti-semitism in Scotland, Wales and Ireland, south or north). Be it 1290, Cromwell and the Jewish return, Judaism in British politics.....
My reference to Frank was a point to counter the self-satisfied attitude I do see here and in America that anti-semitism is an affliction of Europeans. Just to remind that Americans can be vile and bigoted to Jews as well.
I will defend my English friends by pointing out that the history of antisemitism in England is much, much less than the appalling anti-semitism that Europe inflicted on the Jewish people.
Remember, many of Britain’s most established companies, beloved entertainers, revered politicians etc have been Jewish. So little is antisemitism an issue in this country that to this day most are unaware of the Jewish origins of a celebrity or company, and more importantly, no one cares.
Just as Leo Frank should never be allowed to suggest Americans are anti-semitic, some instances of history should never cloud the clear fact that the English and British people have never been remotely an anti-semitic people and in fact have rejected the minority who were/are.
And the fact that a minority of Britons, on the left, are vocal in their dislike of Israel shouldnt cloud that fact either.
p.s I am Scottish, not English. The name’s a clue, sweetie.
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