Paul Ryan: Where's Your Budget, Mr. President? (Why did your party fudge numbers to pass Obamacare?)

Wall Street Journal ^ | 08/03/2011 | Paul Ryan

[MontaniSemperLiberi]

“The House essentially makes a proposal, and what happens to it after that is beyond the control of the House.”

Again, you just make stuff up.

[CodeToad]

Something tells me the RINOs just funded ObamaCare. Look at how much more HHS is getting:

In $ Trillions	2012	2013	2014	2015	2016	2017	2018	2019	2020	2021
Total	$1,936	$2,107	$2,319	$2,570	$2,668	$2,854	$2,899	$2,945	$2,992	$3,039
Social Security	$623	$751	$924	$1,123	$1,166	$1,309	$1,309	$1,309	$1,309	$1,309
Health and Human Services	$270	$299	$329	$361	$395	$414	$434	$454	$475	$496
Discretionary Spending	$1,043	$1,057	$1,066	$1,086	$1,107	$1,131	$1,156	$1,182	$1,208	$1,234

[CodeToad]

“Many people here don’t seem to understand that while spending bills originate in the House, they can be killed or amended out of all recognizability in the Senate or Executive. The House essentially makes a proposal, and what happens to it after that is beyond the control of the House.”

Where did you get that? The house does not make recommendations that are then out of their control. They also vote on any changes.

[livius]

The bill gets sent back; the House finally has to agree to it, but it’s certainly not the one step, fully autonomous thing that people here think it is. In other words, controlling the House does not mean that we have full control over the process, and there is only so much the House can do.

[CodeToad]

“In other words, controlling the House does not mean that we have full control over the process”

It certainly means we do not have to cave. They cannot pass a budget without the House.

[Colonel_Flagg]

Republicans in Congress ignored this threat and passed a bill that cuts more than a dollar in spending for every dollar it increases the debt limit, without raising taxes.

Uh huh.

[MontaniSemperLiberi]

You pulled those #’s out of the bill, right? I remember some of them but didn’t take the time to copy each one. I couldn’t tell exactly what they were, i.e. minimums, caps, etc., etc. I also remember something about a cap in the total of the three that was different than the sum of the parts.

Are you sure about the SS #’s? They flat line after 2017.

So in 2013 the increases are.....

8.8% Total
20.5% Social Security
10.7% Health and Human Services
1.3% Discretionary Spending

An 8.8% increase in the three categories.

[MontaniSemperLiberi]

“The bill gets sent back; “
No it doesn’t. It just sits there. If the House wants to vote on the Senate version, it can. If the House ignores it. It stays ignored.

“the House finally has to agree to it,”
No it doesn’t. See above. The House doesn’t even have to use it for toilet paper. The House can amend it. It can strike amendments the Senate added. It can pass a wholly different law with some of the same elements. And so on.

but it’s certainly not the one step, fully autonomous thing that people here think it is.
Yes it is. The House is fully autonomous. Fully. FULLY. That is the point of “CHECKS” as a concept. The House can pass other bills or go home if it feels like it. The House doesn’t have to do anything. Perhaps you misused the word autonomous. It doesn’t mean what you think it means.

“In other words, controlling the House does not mean that we have full control over the process,”
No the constitution has control of the process. The USSC decides if the process was followed. Read the constitution. There is nothing there about ‘the Senate sending it back”. The process is simply to become a law, the House and Senate have to vote for the exact same law and the president can, if he wants, sign it.

“and there is only so much the House can do.”
And there is only so much the Senate can do and only so much the President can do. Checks. Checks. Checks. The constitution was design to check the branches of government. None of them can do anything alone. The Senate can’t even originate a bill of revenue (Art. 1 Sect. 7). The President is the Commander in Chief but is domestically a mere administrator who has only the discretion the House and Senate agree per written law. The House was intended to be and still is the most powerful (and autonomous) of the three branches as our founders intended. It was only due to the Connecticut Compromise that the Senate became an arm of the states.

You need to stop making things up. You don’t know these things. You think you know what you’re talking about but you don’t. Read a book on the constitution or something. Go read the Federalist Papers threads here on FR. It’s all out there but it does require that you do the work to understand it.

If you think I’m being hard on you, you’re right. I am. I’m concerned I’m not being hard enough. It is important for every voter to remember that no one puts a gun to the head of any elected representative or branch to vote one way or another. Each of them, individually, is responsible for how they vote, if they vote. “But everybody said” is not an acceptable excuse for a teenager let alone an elected representative.

[CodeToad]

“Are you sure about the SS #’s? They flat line after 2017.”

Yep. They expect Baby-Boomer counts to stop increasing. THe entire bill is based on those increases and if they do not increase them by those amounts then they’ll call it a cut.