Posted on 07/29/2011 9:09:32 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
Bud, I don't think there is anyone in congress that can save the USA's ass.....I think congress knows that as well.
Yes, that's why you display your location in your bio....LOL! Oh that's right, you don't. My location is proudly displayed in my bio....so much for your sunshine patriot BS.
Wow! Didn’t know that.
Reaching across the aisle is how we got to where we are now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Back in Bush era all we heard was “next election, next election, next election”.
When are we going to start putting the rubber to the road?????????????????????????????
Fighters fight.
And quitters quit.
It’s too bad we don’t have more liberal fighters on our side. I’d be happy to trade them some of our quitters. :(:(:(:(:(
That’s funny, I don’t see “Mental Institution” in your bio?
And I see absolutely nothing in yours.....what's a matter sissy, you ashamed of Boonville NY? Is that where sunshine patriots that can't get to Florida live?
You see absolutely nothing, period.. Better hurry up and get to the RNC, the RINO’s are issuing talking points..
I'm am Independent.......I'll wait.
You seem to understand somewhat. I wouldn't use the word "truth", not because I don't think that my principles are based on truth, but because people have different principles, and claiming that your own principles are "the truth" raises arguments over who owns "truth". I just say my principles are what I believe to be right, and leave it at that. I do think that others are therefore wrong, but I don't see the value in insulting them about it.
But as you said, a principle is something that guides your decisions. It is not a decision. In my one analogy, the principle is that one should obey the traffic laws. That guides the decisions -- stop at red light, stop at stop sign, drive the speed limit, stay on your side of the yellow line.
But those decisions are still decisions. You don't mindlessly drive the speed limit, or stop, or stay on your side. You use those principles to make decisions. If you are in a pack of people on a non-passing highway, and you are driving exactly the speed limit, and others behind you are backed up on your bumper, you might well decide that it is best for the good of the community to speed up a bit, violating your one "principle" for another broader principle, that of getting along and not making people unncessarily angry about you imposing your truths on them.
Or, you might just pull off the road and let them by. I do that when I see someone come up on my bumper and don't feel like speeding, because I have a principle that I won't stand in someone's way if they want to drive faster.
Plus, princples can in fact be at cross-purposes. There are principles of governance that go beyond getting your own way 100% of the time. West seems to understand that, while some here pretend they don't.
I have a principle that I won't kill people. If I were true to my principle, that would mean if it was me or them, I would let them kill me. I know where my eternal soul is going, and I know where their eternal soul is going if they don't have a chance to repent -- so if I kill them, I condemn them to hell, and I don't want to do that. But I might well violate that principle if, God forbid, it is my wife or children who might be killed. Because there would be another principle at work there.
Let's get specific here, not because it will solve the problem, but because it is illustrative. I have a principle that you pay your bills. The government has what i believe are binding short-term obligations. Those obligations are stupidly appear much bigger than the amount of money we are taking in (a separate argument would be whether our BINDING obligations are bigger than our revenue, as opposed to "everything we want to spend money on").
But we also have a principle that people are taxed too much, and govenrment spends too much. We want to cut government spending. But no matter how you do that, on August 10th, or 15th, or 20th, or soon, the binding obligations of our country will require us to exceed the current debt limit.
Some say we should not increase the debt limit, because of the principle that we are enabling us to spend too much. But that principle will cause us to violate the principle that binding debts should be paid. On August 14th, without a debt increase, Obama will choose what to fund, and he might choose to withold contractor payments to companies who have provided services in exchange for that money -- breaking the promise of payment.
Which principle is more important? Holding the debt limit, or paying obligations? What if holding the debt limit causes financial upheaval, and raises interest rates which makes things even more expensive and makes the debt problem worse? Congress is constitutionally required to do what is good for the country, and that might be a violation of the oath of office -- we certainly argue that it's a violation of the oath to keep increasing the debt on our children.
Meanwhile, other people have other principles, and some of them are diometrically opposed to ours, but they are held just as sincerely. IN order for us to get 100% of what our principles demand, we must hope that others who don't hold our views are willing to abandon their own principles.
IN this battle, we have asked the democrats to abandon their principle that rich people should pay their fair share. We find that principle stupid, or maybe we think it's fine but that they are wrong on their analysis. But we expect them to fold like cheap suits, throw their stupid principles out, and get on board with what we want.
If every person in the congress does that, nothing will get done. Because if every person is principled, and every person strives for 100%, and every person is expecting every other person to abandon their principles, NOTHING can happen, until you convince a majority that your principles are the best.
West understands that in order to govern according to principles, one of those principles is respect for other people's principles, or at least a grudging acknowledgement that they could hold their principles as strongly as we do, and we can't expect them to betray their principles any more than we can be expected to betray our principles.
Compromise is a 4-letter word. Heck, I usually agree because the government's idea of compromise is to take the worst parts of each idea, and throw them together into something that can't possibly work. But in my actual life, I compromise all the time. It's the nature of living to make decisions governed by competing principles, and also reality.
Don't get hung up on the nature of analogies, which aren't really intended to do any more than illuminate an argument.
Thanks, I’m glad you agree. It just makes sense to me.
Please explain what problems raising the last debt ceiling solved ?
Also explain how we are in a better current financial situation since the last time we raised the debt ceiling ?
The two-faced a$$hole leadership goes down the toilet. Maybe we survive. Maybe we don't. I hope you're listening to Levin tonight. (If not, you can download his show for free after it's over.)
Maybe it's time for Rush to call for a March on Washington? I think it would make the MLK thing look like a tea party.
ML/NJ
Do you think that Boehner gets the only vote in the house? How do you think he stops the Reid bill from a vote? You already claim he sold out conservatives, you think he’ll suddenly stand up and refuse to even allow a vote on a bill that a majority of the house wants?
You haven’t yet explained how you think he’d pull that off in this environment — he’s not a dictator.
And yes, I think if there is NO OTHER BILL, the senate could gain cloture on Reid, or more accurately Reid/McConnell/Pieces of Boehner. Of course, we are discussing what would happen if the house didn’t pass a bill — it’s easy for you now to make ignorant claims since the house DID pass a bill so we’ll never know that you were wrong.
The united states will cease to exist, our way of life will be destroyed, our country in ruins, our government lost forever. But at least we kept to our principles, to protect and DEFEND the constitution that will no longer have any value.
And that is your ROSY scenario? I’d hate to see your conservative non-rosy scenario.
BTW, technically “how it works” means the process by which you acheive your goals, not the end result of the failure to make anything that works.
That will happen no matter what happens.
Do you really believe the US will retain it's credit rating if we keep borrowing as we are now?
Do you really believe the credit rating matters anymore?
I believe cutting spending is the only way to resolve our problems. What happened today might be a baby step that will not make it past a veto, but it is still just a baby step. We should have held out on principle.
Do what is right is the best policy. Spending cuts are the only thing that is right at the present.
I do like the balanced budget amendment, but that strikes me as over reaching for now. Like asking for food when you are drowning, where you would be better served asking to be raised out of the water first.
Think about how your argument would have played with the men who signed the Declaration. And the notion the that complete ruin would be upon us if no debt extension were passed is absurd. Some of us think it actually would be an improvement. Think: No traffic in Washington, DC. Maybe Obama and entourage wouldn't be able to go to The Vineyard for Ramadan? Or maybe that's all the government would spend the current income on; and the Geezers on the Vineyard would rise up and show more courage that you?
ML/NJ
Well, the Tea Party freshmen didn’t oppose a rise in the debt ceiling. Were they also inconsistent?
Absolutely. They’ve already drunk the Potomac water, and need to be replaced. They’ve already forgotten why they were sent there.
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