This can be a difficult question in a case where both countries allow dual citizenship. A court might say, yes he did something to affirm allegiance to the other country, but maybe his intention was to continue to be a dual citizen, as allowed by both countries.
“In the case where the other country does not allow dual citizenship, then the intention question becomes much clearer. In that case, if the subject intended to affirm allegiance to the other country, then he necessarily intended to relinquish alligience to the US.
“Because Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship, if Obama did something after he was old enough to know what he was doing that affirmed allegiance or nationality to Indonesia, such as obtain or renew an Indonesian passport, or maybe even just holding himself out as an Indonesian citizen (for example on an application for college admission or financial assistance), then he might well have lost his US citizenship automatically by that action.”
Quoting the relevant stuff in your prior post that I was responding to. Mostly we agree. But it’s a myth that having your child become a citizen of another country due to his parentage or your marriage is considered affiliation to that foreign country by the USA. It is not. Conferred citizenship NEVER takes anything away from your USA citizenship.
That is part one, occurring when Obama was quite young. Part two is what happens when he comes back home, and perhaps asks for a renewal of his Indonesian passport when he’s over 18. He probably did this before his college years trip to Indonesia and pahkeestahn. Again, since his Indonesian passport and citizenship mean nothing to the USA (although these days I bet the state Dept pays closer attn to which Americans do renew their passports to known terror countries), he can renew this passport without even slightly risking his citizenship here. This happens all the time to dual citizens.
Renewing a passport to a foreign country is not considered one of the possible acts that can automatically lose you your US citizenship. Some acts that are: voting in that country, which is routinely overlooked when Mexican Americans do just that; and serving in foreign armies, which was for sure overlooked in the 60s, 70s, when many young Jewish Americans went to Israel to fight for the IDF, including my cousin. So there was leeway for Obama to do all sorts of things and he probably never would have been caught anyway.
HOWEVER, you are onto something that is HUGE. If the American people understood that Barack Obama asked for a passport renewal for another country AS AN ADULT, he would be finished as a candidate for President. We do NOT want our leader to have, as an adult, made the choice to be under another flag. He is definitely unfit to be our President if he did that, which I believe he did.
So you have decided to argue with your straw man.
I never said an adoption of Obama by Soetoro and consequent Indonesian citizenship, if that is what happened, would cause him to relinquish his US citizenship. Please point out where you claim it is that I said that.
If you can't even understand what I wrote correctly, you're not going to have much luck understanding our complicated immigration law, including understanding how it has changed from what it was at the time relevant to Obama to what it is now.
That is part one, occurring when Obama was quite young. Part two is what happens when he comes back home, and perhaps asks for a renewal of his Indonesian passport when he’s over 18. He probably did this before his college years trip to Indonesia and pahkeestahn. Again, since his Indonesian passport and citizenship mean nothing to the USA (although these days I bet the state Dept pays closer attn to which Americans do renew their passports to known terror countries), he can renew this passport without even slightly risking his citizenship here. This happens all the time to dual citizens.
Renewing a passport to a foreign country is not considered one of the possible acts that can automatically lose you your US citizenship. Some acts that are: voting in that country, which is routinely overlooked when Mexican Americans do just that; and serving in foreign armies, which was for sure overlooked in the 60s, 70s, when many young Jewish Americans went to Israel to fight for the IDF, including my cousin. So there was leeway for Obama to do all sorts of things and he probably never would have been caught anyway.
None of these statements you claim ("voting matters, serving in a foreign army matters, renewing a passport does not") as flat propositions are true as a matter of law. Your understanding of the law appears to be based on the anecdotal experiences of other people rather than an understanding of the relevant statutes and cases. You are merely kibbitzing about a subject that requires a more serious and precise analysis.
For example, serving in the armed forces of a foreign country is a problem under the language of the INA as in effect today if such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the US or the person is an officer. Jewish-Americans serving as enlisted personnel in the Israeli army would likely only have a problem if they were required to make sole allegiance to Israel as a condition to serving, in which case yeah, they'd have a big problem under our laws.
What is true is that it is a facts and circumstances analysis in each case the purpose of which is to determine whether what the acts the person undertook are what a reasonable person would objectively determine amount to making allegiance to another country.
Nowhere does the INA state that voting in a foreign election necessarily means the relinquishment of US citizenship. But yes, it is certainly a relevant consideration that would strongly indicate allegiance to another country.
Nowhere does the INA state that obtaining or renewing a foreign passport cannot adversely impact one's US nationality.
In Obama's case, it depends on the relevant facts and circumstances in his specific situation. Under HIS facts and circumstances, did he intend to make allegiance to Indonesia? We ask first, what did he do? If he obtained or renewed an Indonesian passport, did that require him representing, either explicitly or impliedly, that he had SOLE allegiance to Indonesia? Since during the relevant time period, Indonesia did not permit its citizens to be a citizen of another country, it is quite likely that if Obama gained Indonesian citizenship as a child, and later as an adult decided to hold himself out as an Indonesian citizen in order to obtain a legal status that he could ONLY have by necessarily holding himself out as NOT a citizen of any other country, then Obama likely expatriated himself under the INA as in effect in the early 1980s. This would probably be even more clear if we were to examine the statements that Indonesia required an applicant to make in a passport application or renewal either explicitly on its face or implicitly in its regulations.
HOWEVER, you are onto something that is HUGE. If the American people understood that Barack Obama asked for a passport renewal for another country AS AN ADULT, he would be finished as a candidate for President. We do NOT want our leader to have, as an adult, made the choice to be under another flag. He is definitely unfit to be our President if he did that, which I believe he did.
No, he would not be "finished" because it came out that he renewed his Indonesian passport as an adult, if it did not affect his US citizenship. Few people would care about that. Especially because US law has become relaxed over the years such that as it stands now, in 2011, there are many situations in which adults can legally carry dual citizenship under our laws.
He WOULD be "finished" however if it came to light that Obama relinquished his US citizenship as a young man and fraudulently misrepresented to the American people, state electoral authorities, the Electoral College and the Congress his eligibility to be on the presidential ballot, and worked to conceal the fraud.