Posted on 07/26/2011 10:01:05 PM PDT by Nachum
Is it possible to be an optimistical cynic? Seems to me all those Merida Initiative points aren’t so impressive to those affected by the violence in Mexico.
In October, 2010, cartel members kidnapped Mario Gonzalez Rodriguez, the brother of Chihuahua Attorney General Patricia Gonzalez Rodriguez. A few days later, police found Mr. Rodriguez’s body in a shallow grave. Shortly thereafter, police engaged cartel members in a gun fight, from which several guns were recovered. Two were traced to Operation Fast and Furious.
When Mr. Canino confronted other ATF officials about the need to inform the Mexican government about the link, he says he got “zero instructions,” and that “every time I mentioned it, guys started looking at their cellphones, silence in the room.”
Eight months after the murder, Canino finally told Mexican Attorney General Maricela Morales about the link. “Hijole” (oh my), she said.
I am one of the most happiest, most optimistic people on this planet until the subject of government is placed in front of me. That’s when my 50 years experience with public employees, bureaucrats and politicians leaps forth.
Only the deaf and blind actually expect politicians to do the “right” thing. Everyone else only hopes they will. I am past that stage and now it is considered being a realist.
>>Eight months after the murder, Canino finally told Mexican Attorney General Maricela Morales about the link. “Hijole” (oh my), she said.<<
This is what we will make an effort to correct. Next time it will only require six months to notify the Mexican Attorney General. That will be a 25% improvement which will be considered “ a substantial correction” by any and all government employees.
That sounds like an American Truth and I certainly wasn't trying to change your mind regarding politicians in general.
Nor am I looking for any politician to "do" any right thing. Feeling much along the same lines as you about politicians in general, I am looking for Fast & Furious hearings to force politicians to do things most expedient to them and favourable to US.
Praying it works out that way leaves me feeling optimistically cynical. And reading Mexican reaction to what can only be interpreted as betrayal to them makes me think this is a long way from over and far from a business as usual settlement.
A good interviewer kicks serious butt, and only a matter of time until they reveal who has the most dirt under their fingernails and how the dirt got there.
Even worse, since most informants are historically not dependable, reliable or trustworthy.
Leave it to the government to allow these types of people to actually purchase firearms as they disappear into the corrupt black hole of Mehico.
This is laughable, in an insane way.
As of 27 July 2011 we know that the Cast of Characters and offices affected includes:
1. White House (O’Reilly)
2. Dept of Homeland Security (Napolitano)
3. Dept of Justice (Holder)
4. Dept of State (Clinton)
5. ATF (Melson)
6. DEA (Leonhart)
7. FBI (Mueller)
8. IRS (Shulman)
9. ICE (Morton)
This sounds like the heads of the Mafia families and their capos.
Can you indict members of the U.S. government under RICO statutes? How about violations of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) and Export Administration Regulations (EAR)?
We now know Mexican drug cartels, the Zetas paramilitaries (Mexico), and ex-Presidente Zelaya’s people (Honduras) received both civilian AND military arms in violation of both U.S. and international law that we paid for with taxpayer funds. The end game was to circumvent the American Constitution's 2nd Amendment for the purpose of disarming its citizens.
Excellent summation.
Just remember one thing. The players you mentioned .. would never have done this on their own. They had to be directed and synchronized by someone. We all know who that was as well.
The thing is that Melson was actually kept out of the loop. He found out late and went in of his own accord to clear the matter up. They planned on him to fall on the sword for this mess if it was ever found out. They wanted the BATF to take the blame for it all. Melson is now a thorn in their side because he gave information that the congressional oversight needed to take this higher.
People don’t really understand it, but despite the scant media attention this is being given, the BATF are still being blamed for it. That is dis-information.
Without the integrity of the BATF agents, this would never have come to light.
The FBI was the arm of justice that Holder used to keep this all secret, have any of them come out yet to testify on their own? Have we even seen one FBI agent go in and say this was wrong? No we haven’t, yet they set the whole thing up. It was their informant that walked the guns that BATF thought was a bad guy.
Where are the whistle blowers from the FBI? There are none.
If your question about RICO was not rhetorical .. the answer is yes they can be.
>>Even worse, since most informants are historically not dependable, reliable or trustworthy.<<
Informants can be used very effectively if handled properly. As a case in point, I offer you “Gunrunner”. They did exactly what they were supposed to do for the FBI. They did a great job as a matter of fact. Better than they had hoped according to testimony from some.
>>Leave it to the government to allow these types of people to actually purchase firearms as they disappear into the corrupt black hole of Mehico. <<
But that is what the FBI wanted. See the informants performed flawlessly. This was no accident. This was the plan by Justice. They used the FBI to get an informant to purchase firearms. They faked the BATF into thinking he was a real criminal that the BATF was to track. All the FBI really wanted was to track the guns serial numbers though, not the buyers. FBI played the BATF in all of this and the informant did a wonderful job.
Without informants 90%+ of the cases that are successfully closed would be open today. In dealing with evil, you gotta talk to the devil. It is just the nature of the beast, you know?
The bad part is that the FBI was corrupt enough to run an illegal operation using the BATF as the fall guy. But it didn’t turn out that way. BATF turned whistle blower and it is falling right back in to the FBI’s lap now.
I might point out, after Gunrunner was established, the violence in Mexico increased substantially.
Yes informants can be used effectively, but regardless of how informants are handled, anytime informants are used, the risk is very real of things going south and is well documented in thousands of cases. In fact countless times informants have fabricated evidence or statements in hopes of reduced sentence, favors etc. Gunrunner is not without issues or problems and these issues are well documented.
>I might point out, after Gunrunner was established, the violence in Mexico increased substantially. ,
Absolutely .. that was the point of it. That is what Obama wanted.
>the risk is very real of things going south and is well documented in thousands of cases.,
Any case can go south for any number of reasons. You don;t need an informant to do it. I have seen some informants more reliable than the cops!
>In fact countless times informants have fabricated evidence or statements in hopes of reduced sentence, favors etc.<
Certainly, but that is why there should always be some form of checking their statements and evidence as to credibility.
Independent verification and corroborating evidence is necessary when using them.
>Gunrunner is not without issues or problems and these issues are well documented.<
The issues with gunrunner going wrong from it’s plan was that the FBI didn’t count on the BATF saying what a mess it was. Then them going further and demanding that it be stopped. Taking it higher and higher every time that they got stonewalled.
The issue of it going wrong from a law enforcement standpoint is that it was illegal from the beginning and against every set of principles LEO’s train for and work by.
Absolutely .. that was the point of it. That is what Obama wanted.
To be fair, the violence in Mexico started really escalating during the Bush years, and continued to dramatically escalate after Gunrunner was established.
>To be fair, the violence in Mexico started really escalating during the Bush years, and continued to dramatically escalate after Gunrunner was established.<
The last report was that they had over 38,000 people killed last year I think??
For a country that has very strict gun control laws, i woudl say it is not a very good case for gun control regulations.
But the drug cartels will get the guns one way or another.
I just think that they didn’t need our help in getting them.
I hope that they grab the idiots that started this walking deal all the way up the ladder.
White House -— We didn’t know nuffin’ !
No that's not fair it has been escalating over many years...the Bush years had nothing to do with it.....
Wrong.
Bush's border policies for securing our borders were all but non-existent, and he personally and publicly pandered to the Mexicans, while labeling citizens that had a belly full, as "vigilantes".
Due to Bush's border failures and aiding and abetting open borders, this created not only a national security time bomb, but an environment for the drug cartels to have a free for all, enabling them to smuggle in thousands of tons of dope every year. During war time no less.
This was clearly a huge factor regarding Mexican drug violence, in Mexico.
RICO charges certainly can be brought against him. Yes.
They just need a special prosecutor to do them. The justice department normally handles them, and they would be unable to because of the obvious conflict of interest.
Congress can assign a special prosecutor to do them and empower him in every aspect to do the charges.
BTW - just IMO - I don;t think that they have enough for a true RICO case .. (yet) but I think that Issa is doing a good job of establishing grounds for one.
I have been following this pretty close. I think he has done an amazing job. But what he woudl need is more than just someones testimony that zero was in on it.
Some notes that he had, or transcripts from a meeting where he was told would be more than enough to meet the threshold for conspiracy though.
Right now, I think (just me again) that zero has insulated himself to this point of being able to claim some plausible deniability. But given time I think Issa and Grassley will lock him in.
I am betting that when people were involved in this, they kept notes or some evidence of his involvement in case it all unraveled and they needed to save their own skins. Rats unlike patriots will not be so happy to take the hit for dear leader. Especially something this big.
What the plotters forgot was that there were a lot of people who made copies of the message traffic the plotters wrote and squirreled it away in a Pearl Harbor File. The originals of the messages were destroyed, but the copies brought the plotters to Russian justice.
I don't think any of the players in Fast & Furious or Castaway are any smarter than the Russian coup plotters. Our plotters might be dumber than the Russians — mainly because our plotters don't have as much practical experience as the Russian participants.
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