Of course this is not true but the Catholic teaching has been that all non-Catholics are going to hell.
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Conservativegreatgrandma has been repeating that lie, she told friday: ““It may also be pointed out that the Catholic church’s official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell” “
even after NUMEROUS people showed church law that it is a lie. Pope Benedict himself, affirmed that year, that we will see Baptist and Protestant brothers and sisters in Heaven.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2748910/posts?q=1&;page=101
The Cathecism of the Catholic Church now teaches:
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“. . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
...and frankly, i don’t think Bachmann would start an anti-catholic pogram. and i would have respected her more, if she didn’t quit her church, just to run.
...if her church is negotiable, how can you count on her integrity in anything ?
especially, after she lied about her taxes (50k is “not a penny”), lied about her husband curing gays in his clinic (again, she should have been proud of that, not lied and tried to hide it), and many more.
Romney’s religion (Mormons) teaches that ALL other christian churches are in error, and will go to hell. Baptists as well as Catholics. no one attacks him for that.
i don’t attack Bachmann for that either. but i do object to lies and lack of integrity, and abandoning her religion for political expediency.
again, i don’t care about their religion. i care about them being fiscal conservatives, with INTEGRITY.
Before Rollins, i believe Bachmann was, and would have voted for her.
and i’m not “attacking” Bachmann.
Palin was attacked, and things made up about her, and words put in her mouth.
me and others, are simply commenting, on specific words and actions from Bachmann HERSELF.
i like Cain, and Palin. but i HAVE strongly criticised BOTH of them, for things they said and did. that is honesty and integrity.
...if ANY other candidate, called $50,000 “not a penny”, or claimed John Wayne was born in their hometown when he wasn’t, etc., the Bachmann supporters would have condemned them instantly.
(look how everyone criticised Newt’s 500,000 Tiffany’s account.)
the only thing i dislike more than a liar, is a hypocrite.
the only person dividing us, is Bachmann herself, by her own words and actions.
See, now THAT you have to admit is a confusing statement. Faith? ....in...baptism? Isn't our faith in Christ and his bearing the penalty of our sins on Calvary?
I love my Catholic brothers, but they can be so turgid and unclear in their speech, and sometimes I worry that many not so active Catholics get confused and absorb the erroneous idea that going through a given ritual is a ticket to heaven.
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You affirmed "Conservativegreatgrandma has been repeating that lie, she told friday: ““It may also be pointed out that the Catholic church’s official teaching is that anyone not a Catholic will also be going to hell” And "the only person dividing us, is Bachmann herself, by her own words and actions." Yet besides other things that can be listed (advocation of torture, restrictions on Bible reading, etc.) your own faith has not been consistent either. But an autocratic entity presumes it can define what is consistent. Pope Leo XIII, in Sapientiae Christianae: "But the supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself. This obedience should, however, be perfect...(and) must consequently be accepted without wavering.... Pope Leo XIII, in Sapientiae Christianae (On Christians As Citizens), Encyclical promulgated on January 10, 1890, #22-24. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13sapie.htm Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe [Sentence condemning various articles of John Wyclif]: 8. If a pope is foreknown as damned and is evil, and is therefore a limb of the devil, he does not have authority over the faithful given to him by anyone, except perhaps by the emperor. [Condemned articles of J. Hus]: 20. If the pope is wicked, and especially if he is foreknown to damnation, then he is a devil like Judas the apostle, a thief and a son of perdition and is not the head of the holy church militant since he is not even a member of it. Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum16.htm Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino 1441): "Whoever, therefore, have adverse and contrary opinions the Church disapproves and anathematizes and declares to be foreign to the Christian body which is the Church." Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino: "The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation... and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church." Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style), proclaimed "ex cathedra" (infallible). http://www.catholicism.org/pages/florence.htm Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): “There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church. (On the Unity of the Catholic Church) http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9singul.htm Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff. Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Bull promulgated on November 18, 1302. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html Fifth Lateran Council: Moreover, since subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful, as we are taught by the testimony of both sacred scripture and the holy fathers, and as is declared by the constitution of pope Boniface VIII of happy memory, also our predecessor, which begins Unam sanctam, we therefore...renew and give our approval to that constitution... Fifth Lateran CouncilSession 11, 19 December 1516, http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum18.htm Pope Pius XII, Ad Apostolorum Principis: "We teach,...We declare that the Roman Church by the Providence of God holds the primacy of ordinary power over all others, and that this power of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff, which is truly episcopal, is immediate. Toward it, the pastors and the faithful of whatever rite and dignity, both individually and collectively, are bound by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, not only in matters which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church spread throughout the whole world, in such a way that once the unity of communion and the profession of the same Faith has been preserved with the Roman Pontiff, there is one flock of the Church of Christ under one supreme shepherd. This is the teaching of the Catholic truth from which no one can depart without loss of faith and salvation." Pope Pius XII, Ad Apostolorum Principis (On Communism And The Church In China), Encyclical Promulgated on June 29, 1958, #46. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061958_ad-apostolorum-principis_en.html Pope Pius X, Iucunda Sane: "...We cannot but remind all, great and small, as Pope St. Gregory did, of the absolute necessity of having recourse to this Church in order to have eternal salvation, to follow the right road of reason, to feed on the truth, to obtain peace and even happiness in this life." Pope Pius X, Iucunda Sane (On Pope Gregory the Great), Encyclical promulgated on March 12, 1904, #9. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_12031904_iucunda-sane_en.html Pope Boniface I, Epistle Ad Thessalon: "Whosoever has cut himself off from the Church of Rome has become an alien to Christianity." Pope Boniface I, Epistle Ad Thessalon, LAF, vol IX:57; FOC, p 324 (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 2: "Those Who Reject Christ's Church Are Anti-Christian"). http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/6480/catholics/apostolic4chp2.html Pope Pius IX, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore: Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff.. Pope Pius IX, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, #8 http://www.ewtn.com/library/encyc/p9quanto.htm Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus: “There are other, almost countless, proofs drawn from the most trustworthy witnesses which clearly and openly testify with great faith, exactitude, respect and obedience that all who want to belong to the true and only Church of Christ must honor and obey this Apostolic See and Roman Pontiff." Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus (On The Care Of The Churches), Encyclical promulgated on April 8, 1862, # 3. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P9AMANT2.HTM Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 9): The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium. Satis Cognitum (# 9): June 29, 1896: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos: "No one is found in the one Church of Christ, and no one perseveres in it, unless he acknowledges and accepts obediently the supreme authority of St. Peter and his legitimate successors." Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, PTC:873, http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11MORTA.HTM Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff." "If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html Pope Pelagius II, Quod Ad Dilectionem: Those not willing to be at agreement in the Church of God cannot abide with God. For the Church of God is established among those known to preside over the Apostolic Sees, and whoever separates himself from these Sees is manifestly in schism." Pope Pelagius II, Quod Ad Dilectionem," http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis: "They, therefore, walk in the path of dangerous error who believe that they can accept Christ as the Head of the Church, while not adhering loyally to His Vicar on earth. They have taken away the visible head, broken the visible bonds of unity and left the Mystical Body of the Redeemer so obscured and so maimed, that those who are seeking the haven of eternal salvation can neither see it nor find it... Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi (On the Mystical Body of Christ), Encyclical promulgated on June 29, 1943, #41-42, 69. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061943_mystici-corporis-christi_en.html Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum: St. Augustine denies that anyone who dissents from the Roman faith can be a Catholic. "You are not to be looked upon as holding the true Catholic faith if you do not teach that the faith of Rome is to be held" (Sermo cxx., n. 13). St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke: "The Lord severed the Jewish people from His kingdom, and heretics and schismatics are also severed from the kingdom of God and from the Church. Our Lord makes it perfectly clear that every assembly of heretics and schismatics belongs not to God, but to the unclean spirit." St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke", ch.7, 91-95; PL 15; SS, vol. II, p. 85, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 2: "Those Who Reject Christ's Church are Anti-Christian"). http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/6480/catholics/apostolic4chp2.html St. Thomas Aquinas: It is also shown that to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. For Cyril says in his Thesaurus: “Therefore, brethren, if we imitate Christ so as to hear his voice remaining in the Church of Peter and so as not be puffed up by the wind of pride, lest perhaps because of our quarrelling the wily serpent drive us from paradise as once he did Eve.” And Maximus in the letter addressed to the Orientals says: “The Church united and established upon the rock of Peter’s confession we call according to the decree of the Savior the universal Church, wherein we must remain for the salvation of our souls and wherein loyal to his faith and confession we must obey him.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Against the Errors of the Greeks, Pt. 2, ch. 36 http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b38 St. Peter Julian Eymard: "People often say, 'It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.' That is not true! (quoted in "The Real Presence, NY: Blessed Sacrament Fathers, 1938, p. 245). http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/heretic.htm St. Frances Xavier Cabrini: "Many Protestants have almost the same practices as we, only they do not submit to the Holy Father and attach themselves to the true Ark of Salvation. They do not want to become Catholics and unite themselves under the banner of truth wherein alone there is true salvation. Of what avail is it, children, if Protestants lead naturally pure, honest lives, yet lack the Holy Ghost? They may well say: 'We do no harm; we lead good lives'; but, if they do not enter the true fold of Christ, all their protestations are in vain." St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, "Travels", Chicago: 1944, pp. 84, 71. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/heretic.htm Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis (Concerning Some False Opinions Threatening to Undermine the Foundations of Catholic Doctrine): "Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the sources of revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation." Encyclical promulgated on August 12, 1950, #27. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html "Nothing ever changes in the eternal Catholic doctrine." Pope John Paul II, LOR, #49, December 9, 1992, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 6: "The Book of Sentimental Excuses", Chapter 4: "The Dogmas of Faith Admit No Alteration Whatsoever"). “He is a heretic who deviates from any article of faith.” The American Textbook of Popery, p 143, (quoting from the “Directory for the Inquisitors”). Baltimore Catechism: "Outside the Church there is no salvation" does not mean that everyone who is not a Catholic will be condemned. It does mean that no one can be saved unless he belongs in some manner to the Catholic Church, either actually or in desire, for the means of grace are not given without some relation to the divine institution established by Christ." Baltimore Catechism, #3, Chapters 11 & 12, #138, 166-167. http://www.catholic-pages.com/dir/link.asp?ref=11597 Lumen Gentium: "This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation....Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved." Pope Paul VI, in Council of Vatican II, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Promulgated on November 21, 1964, Chapter II "On the People of God", #14. http://www.cin.org/v2church.html Catechism of the Catholic Church: "Outside the Church there is no salvation" "How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? [Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21: PL 3, 1169; De unit.: PL 4, 509-536.] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the (Catholic) Church which is his Body: ... Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part One, "The Profession of Faith", Section Two, "The Profession of the Christian Faith", Chapter Three, "I Believe in the Holy Spirit, Article 9, "I Believe in the Holy Catholic Church", Paragraph 3, "The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic", Section III, "The Church Is Catholic", #846 (1992 edition, p 244). http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm The plan of salvation includes those also who acknowledge the Creator; foremost among these are the Muslims: they profess fidelity to the faith of Abraham and, with us, adore the one and merciful God who will judge mankind on the last day.” Lumen Gentium, Vatican Council II pg. 367, Austin Flannery, General Editor. LUMEN GENTIUM: “The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (Cf. Gal. 4:6; Rom. 8:15-16 and 26) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities...They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood...” (15) |
In one way I don't have a dog in this fight (I'm not a chr*stian, though I'm a product of and very supportive of Protestant Fundamentalism), but I resent the typical leftist hypocrisy that says that historic "victim" groups can't themselves ever be guilty of anything--a note sounded over and over by Catholics who feel they have to play the "Know Nothing" card just because some Protestant churches actually still believe what they always did.
But you know, I have to ask: why does the "unchanged and unchanging" Catholic Church have to teach something "now" that it did not always teach? If the Church has had to change its teaching at some point in the past, how can any dogma be safe?
I believe the real reason Catholics resent Fundamentalist Protestants is that, unlike them, the Fundamentalists haven't sold out to political correctness, ecumenism, and "faith tradition." No wonder many Catholics sound like the Anti-Defamation League.