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To: DiogenesLamp
Suppose you are right and Hawaii altered the BC. What makes you think they would alter the place of birth? Do you have any evidence, any at all, that a judge, upon an adoption, ever ordered Hawaii to deliberately falsify the place of birth? Is there any provision under Hawaiian law that woudl allow this?

My understanding is that the only thing that a state can falsify on a BC as a result of an adoption is the identity of the parents.

24 posted on 07/12/2011 12:10:55 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: curiosity
Suppose you are right and Hawaii altered the BC. What makes you think they would alter the place of birth? Do you have any evidence, any at all, that a judge, upon an adoption, ever ordered Hawaii to deliberately falsify the place of birth? Is there any provision under Hawaiian law that woudl allow this?

First of all, I am not discounting the possibility that Barack really was born in Hawaii. Enough evidence exists to persuade me that this is quite possibly true. However, enough evidence exists to persuade me that he could have been born elsewhere, yet still obtained a birth certificate from Hawaii which claims he was born in Hawaii. What I am instead arguing is that he was quite likely adopted (or custody transfer) at least once in his life, and that this would explain the peculiarities regarding his birth documents.

But to answer your question, I have read through Hawaii's birth certificate laws. They allow some peculiar shenanigans. Unless evidence comes along which disproves the theory, it seems to me that it is quite possible to get a Hawaiian birth certificate by submitting a "born at home" affidavit. If I recall correctly, applicants have up to a year to get a required Doctor's examination of the child. Madelyn Dunham could have submitted the paperwork on behalf of her daughter, (Thereby generating the first official record AND the newspaper announcements.) if her Daughter were in Seattle or Canada. (I think the Kenyan theory is completely unreasonable.) Stanley Ann came back from Seattle within the Year period necessary to meet the Doctor's examination requirement.

My understanding is that the only thing that a state can falsify on a BC as a result of an adoption is the identity of the parents.

I would suggest that if they can falsify that, they can falsify any other part as well. Again, Hawaii has peculiar birth laws. They allow children born on ships to claim Hawaiian birth, they allowed pretty lenient "at home" declarations of birth, I suspect that if Hawaiian's adopt a foreign child, they will give that child a Hawaiian birth certificate anyway. Hawaii has a LOT of foreign contact as a result of it's unique circumstance for an American state.

You wonder how they can falsify stuff on birth certificates? *I* wonder how they got the signature of my original birth Doctor on MY birth certificate, which I know was created 6 years after I was born! Did they send him a copy of the new one 6 years later for him to sign, or did they just "copy" an existing signature of his? What would they have done had he died or been otherwise unavailable?

I have read at least one article from a man alleging he was found as a child and adopted with no information available about him whatsoever. That would imply they had to make up every single piece of information on his birth document.

I am unaware of any bounds regarding a Judge's directive in the creation of a birth document. As far as I know, a Judge can put anything on there that he wishes.

29 posted on 07/12/2011 12:50:02 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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