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To: sukhoi-30mki

Unmanned drones only work if you have total air supremacy. Without that, they will simply be target practice for F-15’s


3 posted on 07/08/2011 6:08:49 AM PDT by BobinIL
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To: BobinIL

I also suspect we can jam them or maybe hijack control of them.


5 posted on 07/08/2011 6:27:56 AM PDT by super7man
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To: BobinIL
That's true - but a slight complication exists in regards to China. China's main scope of operations (that could potentially bring it into overt conflict with the US) would be over the Taiwanese strait. Not in some distant land or multiple fronts. Just a span of water only 112 miles across. That strait is, currently, within range of a lot of Chinese assets. These range from its S-300/HQ9 SAMs (that cover almost all of the strait), to just over a thousand lesser generation fighter planes (3rd generation fighters mostly - but which still need to be shot down), and a couple hundred more advanced 4th (and 4.5) generation fighters. Then there are its several hundred intermediate range ballistic missiles (armed with conventional warheads) that threaten a lot of the land airbases that the US can take off from (let us put it this way ..there will be no F-15/22s being used because Kadena is easily within range, and flying in from Guam is a problem. A Rand study that simulated 'perfect' F-22s that were totally invulnerable and fired missiles that had 'magical' 1.0 pK, and facing off against Chinese Flankers that had 0.0 pK for BVR missiles, still lost when ...after shooting down the Chinese Flankers ...enough Flankers were left that shot down the refueling planes for the Raptors, which led to the Raptors running out of fuel and crashing into the sea on their way back), and as for F/A-18s the Chinese solution to that is the IRBM missiles that have terminal guidance systems that provide 'some' (not sure how credible) threat to aircraft carriers.

Thus, once you add an advanced IADS with advanced SAMs (that are believed to make airspace inhospitable to legacy fighters like the F-15 and F-/A-18), with over a thousand aircraft of various vintage ranging from 4.5 gen to 3rd gen (all requiring a missile), and IRBMs that make near air-basing (land or aircraft carrier) a viable risk (meaning that aircraft that can survive the Chinese IADS/SAM, like the F-22 Raptor, would have to fly from a very long distance away ...putting refueling aircraft at risk even in a situation where Raptors have a 100:0 exchange ratio) ....put all of that together and China does have air superiority over the Taiwan Strait. Add to that the fact that every 5 years the technical capability of the Chinese armed forces goes up. Already they have guided-missile destroyers that have AEGIS-esque phased radars, and they are working on three different stealth-fighter concepts (the first, the two J-20 concepts was revealed earlier in the year). In another 5 years they will have more phased-radar destroyers, and it is possible that one or more of the 5th generation concepts will have started initial production. Another 5 years after that the Taiwan issue will be totally moot.

I actually believe that currently it is already moot ...that no US president, Democrat or Republican, would commit boots in the ground in China because of Taiwan (or even any action similar to what Clinton did when he sent a carrier group to make the Chinese back down). Is there a treaty? Yes. Will America go to the defence of Taiwan against China? I would not bet two matinee movie tickets, no popcorn, and a shared slurpy on that! I doubt it would happen. Dem or Repub. Taiwan's defence totally depends on Taipei getting its act together and doing the needful. It will not have any F-22s or F-15s sanitizing the airspace over the Strait, because the US will not be involved. Obviously Taipei cannot do much to overcome Beijing's overwhelming advantages, but it can do enough to ensure that Beijing thinks long and hard before it commits hard assets towards a Taiwanese invasion. An analogy I have used before is a hive of bees against a bear ...sure the bear can still win, but that 'win' will come at a painful cost (maybe so painful that the bear, even with its innate and overwhelming advantages, decides to try salmon instead of honey).

However, currently, if air superiority is regarded as the ability to function over a particular airspace unimpeded, China already has air supremacy over Chinese airspace that extends to the Taiwan Strait. Sure, B-2s and F-22s can operate largely unimpeded, but of those two airframes the F-22 wouldn't make it back (unless it has perpetual fuel tanks), and there are not that many B-2s around.

6 posted on 07/08/2011 6:46:40 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: BobinIL; spetznaz

I doubt they will be target practice for F-15s. With expanding Chinese military budget and massive production capacity they could very easily produce a large number of inexpensive drones to overwhelm the airdefense of almost any country. They lose nothing even if several dozens of drones are taken down. The USAF even if more technologically advanced would not be able to contain the sheer numbers while operating across the pacific ocean, far away from homeland. While the drones take on the ground targets the manned fighter in the Chinese inventory can be deployed to take on air superiority roles in far greater numbers. Chinese growth and modernization can very fast change the dynamics of air warfare over the region.


10 posted on 07/08/2011 10:24:40 AM PDT by ravager
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