[alexander_busek]

Dear Nevadan, Thanks for your posting! Re. Nietzsche: I've always liked his aphorisms, and "Die Fröhliche Wissenschaft" was always a favorite. "Also Sprach Zarathustra" was exquisitely poetic at times - as well as being very quotable. But I am not an adherent of Nietzsche (you know, not all atheists are), so please don't employ a Straw Man argument and say that I don't measure up to his standards. Nietzsche lived more than 100 years ago, before such terms as "the selfish gene" were even thought of, and his understanding of Darwinian fitness was, at best, limited. Also, he is frequently misunderstood in that much of what he wrote was not to be taken literally - at least, not as a literal endorsement, but rather as a provocative: "If that's the way you feel, then why don't you burn down the town?"

As to your point about me making an unsubstantiated assumption about you - let me remind you that you were the one who claimed that God was sadistic.

Ahhh, but I didn't make an unsubstantiated claim about YOU, whereas you did leap to a couple of conclusions about me!

The only support you gave was because of the existence of natural disasters, disease, etc. Wouldn’t you agree that that is pretty slim evidence considering the provocative statment you made?

I agree that more evidence might be justified in a Court of Law, but this is only a couple of FReepers talking "off topic." But actually, no: I would not even then characterize that as "slim evidence." In fact, I'd say that it was still rather devastating evidence. And I notice that you still haven't actually responded to it, nicht wahr?

You said, in a previous post, that you had read Christian authors dealing with the subject and I merely asked you which ones and you now say that is “too involved to say here”. In addition, I didn’t ask you for “credentials” - just Christian authors you claimed to have read.

That IS tantamount to asking me to present my "credentials" - something which you haven't done yet, either!

Regards,

[Nevadan]

re: “Ahhh, but I didn’t make an unsubstantiated claim about YOU, whereas you did leap to a couple of conclusions about me!”

Orginially, yes, I thought I lept to a conclusion when you claimed that you have read Christian writers on the subject. I took your word for it and admitted that I stood corrected. However, you still have not mentioned any specific Christian author’s or apologists that you claimed you read. Since you made the claim, I don’t think it is inappropriate for me to inquire as to which ones you’ve read.

re: “That IS tantamount to asking me to present my “credentials” - something which you haven’t done yet, either!”

I didn’t ask you for “credentials” - I didn’t ask you for what university degrees you hold - I didn’t ask you what you did for a living - I merely asked, based on your own claim that you have already read and considered Christian writers perspectives on this issue, what authors or books you read.

As to me presenting “my” creditials - why should I? You made the claim, not me. However, I have read several articles and essays by Nietzsche (of course), Bertrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawkings, Sam Harris, etc. I’ve also read many Christian authors views on this subject - C.S. Lewis, J.J. Packer, Ravi Zacharias, Walter Martin, William Lane Craig, Greg Koukle, etc.

re: “In fact, I’d say that it was still rather devastating evidence.”

Just saying so doesn’t “make it so” and you haven’t explained why occurance of natural disasters is such “devastating evidence” that God is sadistic.

re: “And I notice that you still haven’t actually responded to it, nicht wahr?”

I’m not sure what you mean? I think I have been responding to your statement - I’ve pointed out that you merely made an provocative claim about God without fleshing out your argument, and, I’ve asked you to sustantiate your claim that you have read Christian authors on the subject of natural disasters and the problem of suffering and where you disagreed with them, and where you felt they didn’t adequately answer the problem.

re: “But I am not an adherent of Nietzsche (you know, not all atheists are), so please don’t employ a Straw Man argument and say that I don’t measure up to his standards.”

Yes, I realize that not all atheists adhere to Nietzsche. I believe that was my point. And, no, you don’t measure up to his standards as an atheist. Not many do today. You all want the goodies without the “Gander”. I understand why, it just intrigues me how modern atheists want to avoid the unavoidable on morality without God. Whatever moral system you rely upon or create is simply built upon your own personal preferences. That’s fine, but most atheists refuse to admit it.

Look, you don’t have to respond to this post, unless you just want to. I think we’re just generating heat without producing any light. So, I will not be responding to your next one so you can have the last word.

Auf wiedersehen.