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To: editor-surveyor

It’s usually not used straight, but chemically reacted with lye and alcohol to form the fuel compound. Using straight grease would be asking for bad varnish problems in the engine.


10 posted on 06/26/2011 9:01:56 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: HiTech RedNeck; DBrow; editor-surveyor; Vince Ferrer; JerseyHighlander
HiTech RedNeck wrote:
It’s usually not used straight, but chemically reacted with lye and alcohol to form the fuel compound. Using straight grease would be asking for bad varnish problems in the engine.
You are correct. Usually it's "converted" to biodiesel (ethyl esters) by a chemical process you describe fairly accurately.

It is possible to modify a vehicle to run on strate Waste Vegetable oil. The modifications required are primarily to the fuel tanks and lines. If you can keep it hot and filter the heck out of it, a diesel engine will burn it fine. The problem is straight waste grease has a very high melting temp (depending on the oils used, it can be over 100°F). You have to heat the fuel tank and all the fuel lines. You also need serious filtration to filter out the bits of french fries and batter that are in the "fuel." In the past, I've owned two VW Diesels which were adequately modified for this, but with biodiesel available these days, I wouldn't bother.

DBrow wrote:
Padlocks can solve this seemingly intractable problem. Stuff has value and is unsecured? I’m SHOCKED that it would be stolen!
It will take a bit more than padlocks. Anyone showing up with a tanker truck (or a truck loaded with 55 gallon drums) and the equipment to pump the stuff can probably bring along a nice big bolt cutter for the padlock.
editor-surveyor wrote:
Even the best biodiesel fails badly.

Last fall the school buses in Bend, Oregon all stalled with a load of passengers aboard, as the fuel slowly gelled in the fuel lines after they left the heated garage.

It took all the rest of the day to get the kids home, because they had zero buses with real diesel fuel in their tanks.
Biodiesel (and petro-diesel for that matter) are available as "#2 diesel" which is pure diesel for summer use, and as "#1 diesel" which is winterized with additives for winter use. The additives (kerosene or alcohol) lower the "gel point" and prevent the problem of fuel gelling in the fuel lines.

Anyone running #2 diesel when outside temperatures are below freezing is an idiot. Whether they are using biodiesel or petro-diesel does not matter. What matters is if they are stupid enough to try using summer fuel in winter weather conditions.

The problem there wasn't the biofuel, it was the idiots putting the wrong fuel in the tank. They could have caused just as much trouble with summer petro-diesel. Would you have said biodiesel is great if they put summer petro-diesel in the tank and "fixed" the problem by putting in winterized biodiesel? It could happen that way too.

Vince Ferrer wrote:
I had to dig down into the article to see who exactly was the victim here. If the restaurants are selling the oil, and it is getting stolen, they will sonn respond by locking up the oil. The fact that they used to have to pay someone to take it away is probably why they don't have locks now. Odd that it is the biodiesel companies complaining, though.
This is a more complicated relationship than your average reporter could understand. It doesn't surprise me that the article doesn't cover it.

The victim here is probably both the restaurant and the recycler. Actually, if the restaraunt wants to make a complaint and press the issue, they might get the recycler to pay them for the stolen oil.

Here is how it works. The recycler provides the containers and officially takes posession of the oil when the restaurant places it in the provided container. They should be providing locking containers now that theft is an issue.

I actually wonder how many of the restaurants are doing something fraudulent here. As I said, if they really complain loudly, they could get paid for the "stolen" oil. It's not the restaurant's fault that the recycler provided an insecure container to hold their "valuable assets."

Also, if they are locked into a contract with low prices (well below today's market value) for the oil, it's possible that the restaurants are also allowing someone else to pick up the oil for cash at a higher price, and the recycler is just losing their source, which is locked in at the contracted price, well below market value now. In that case, the restaraunt operator is participting in the theft from the recycler.

JerseyHighlander wrote:
Let me explain something to you, this is NOT for biodiesel.

THIS IS BEING CRUDELY ‘FILTERED’ THEN MIXED INTO COMMERCIAL COOKING OIL AND BEING RESOLD IN NYC AT THE SUPPLIER LEVEL.
At today's prices, I seriously doubt this his happening.

The recyclers/renderers get better prices selling "the good stuff" (the clearest, cleanest grades of their recycled product) to pharmaceutical companies for use in gel capsules, and the rest to biodiesel co-ops for refining/conversion to diesel fuel. When diesel is $4/gallon, you don't sell it as "cheap recycled cooking grease" for cooking at $2/gallon wholesale.

And even when it is sold as cooking oil, it's more likely going to commercial "food processing" plants than restaurants. You'll get the deep fried results of that in the snack food aisles at your local grocer (potato chips, corn chips and pork rinds), and in the frozen food aisles.

28 posted on 06/27/2011 4:05:05 AM PDT by cc2k ( If having an "R" makes you conservative, does walking into a barn make you a horse's (_*_)?)
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