Steven B Krivit of New Energy Times blog is visiting Italy to investigate the Rossi and Focardi Energy Catalyzer.
The primary validity of the E-Cat trio’s dramatic energy claim is highly contingent on and derived from the heat output which they calculate indirectly from a claimed full or near-full vaporization of 100-degree water to steam. Complete vaporization of 100-degree water into steam requires the complete absence of suspended water droplets in steam.
Steve discussed the crucial difference in steam enthalpy calculations by mass versus by volume with Levi on Wednesday afternoon. Based on his initial response, he could not be sure if he had previously understood the potential impact.
Steve showed them calculations which displayed one to two orders of magnitude less enthalpy if the measurements had been made volumetrically. He was assured that the measurements had been measured by mass.
Mr Krivit has understood nothing of what he saw, from what I have read in his ridiculous report.
We made the measurement of the water in weight and we explained this to Krivit.
The entire uncertainty about vaporization enthalpy would be moot if the experiments were run with a higher flow rate to keep the output temperature below boiling. Levi apparently did this on Feb. 10-11 and he provided information about his final results to reporter Mats Lewan of Ny Teknik.
Levi has not however, provided Lewan, or anybody for that matter, any information about his data. On Wednesday, I asked Levi for this data, for the second time. This time, he agreed. Levi promised to send me either raw or formatted data from the Feb. 10-11 experiment by next Wednesday.
Steve will be producing a full report which will include a detailed assessment of their methodology, and, as much as they will provide, their data.
• GoatGuy 2 hours ago • IMPORTANT LITTLE DETAIL…
Perhaps everyone overlooked a key clue: "Rossi took the [black rubber exhaust] hose out of the sink [got rid of its water and pointed it upward] where Krivit observed a slowly rising plume of white steam"
Remember … this unit is supposed to be putting out 4,700 watts (or perhaps more) power. The input is tap water, and the output is steam (gas). 2257 KJ/kg plus (100 C — 20 C) KJ/kg for heating the tap water. Call it roughly 2330 KJ/kg.
Now… 4,700 watts equals exactly 4.7 KJ/s, so we're looking at ( $grams = 4.7 / 2330 × 1000 g/kg ) = 2.02 grams of water boiled in a stead-state case. ( $lps = $grams / 18 g/mol × 22.4 L/mol × 373 / 300 steam/STP ) = 3.12 liters per second should be the effused steam flow rate.
That … 3.1 liters per second through “a thick black hose” (which undoubtedly is the kind of thick black steam hose we used to use all the time in physics and chemistry labs) has an inside diameter of about a centimeter or so. ( $cmps = $lps × 1000 ml/L / ( 2 × 3.14 × 0.5 ↑ 2 ) ) = 2,990 centimeters per second flow. That's about 30 METERS PER SECOND of exhaust steam. About 100 kilometers per hour, or 60 MPH.
The steam should be just about roaring out of the hose.
Now maybe Rossi didn't really make the E-Cat “go” for Krivit. Just kind of turned it on, showed him a little steam, offered him a cup of coffee and hoped he'd just go away. However, that seems disingenuous to an extreme.
Let's do the calculation again with the “300 watt external heat” source as per claimed. Should be simple… ( $mps2 = $cmps × 300 W / 4700 W / 100 cm/m ) = 1.27 meters per second. Much slower. In fact … if we were correlate such Rossi claims such as 20:1 energy multiplier (and other assertions that the heater is only 150 watts) then a steam exhaust rate of 0.6 to 1.2 meters per second is not fast (especially if the hose is actually larger than my estimate, which could drop it to the “slowly coming out” rate of maybe 0.1 m/s with a 2.5 cm (inside diameter) hose.
But, if that were the case, it also (again) points the the fact that the device's output was almost solely from the heater boiling some water. Not a magnificent energy multiplier and 4,700 watts of output.
Let's keep this in mind — unless researchers CAREFULLY check the basic undergraduate thermodynamics and cross check the product-results for consistency, then all is lost. The work of a magician is almost always in hiding something in the hand you're not looking at
G O A T G U Y • Flag • OkiePC liked this
Reply • Daniel Rocha 1 hour ago in reply to GoatGuy • I don't know if 30 m/s is too much out of the ordinary. So, I looked for the speed of air out of a hair drier or hand direr and it seems that speed of 20m/s, with an output of up to 40L, with consumption of around 2000W are not unusual things:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles...
A dog hair dryer blows even faster than the e-cat:
http://www.ec51.com/sell-price...
I don't know if that would be something so loud (actually, that e-cat should be sillent) considering that nearly all noise from these machines comes from vibrations of the engine and moving fans. • Flag • GoatGuy liked this
Reply • GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to Daniel Rocha • I couldn't find that 20 m/s speed … saw models sporting 13 m/s and 17.5 m/s… but I didn't look all that hard. It is good research, and a fair comparison. (The power consumption of a hair dryer is kind of immaterial, I think) Interesting about those dog dryers. I watched a pro using one, and they don't ever get very close to Muttley. And they are LOUD.
I don't think the 30 meters per second coming out of a smooth insulated rubber hose would be all that loud, but it would make an impressive wind (rather like the dog dryer). And that plume would be a big ball of hot steam. Quite a contrast to Krivit's demonstration.
(FOR AN EVEN APPROACH: I also recognize that Krivit's look at the steam could have been during the heating phase of the unit. Who can say? But if so, then Krivit should have noticed a substantial whistling and “steam sound” of the exhaust gasses being vented to the sink. UNAVOIDABLE NOISE. As anyone who's worked with “live steam” in a modern chemical engineering lab can attest.
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Reply • Daniel Rocha 55 minutes ago in reply to GoatGuy • I couldn't find the specs of a live steam, but a home vacuum cleaner blows well above 100m/s through a thin tube, to reach the dust accumulated in fold parts. At least among the ones I saw, they just do a hissing sound if it the hose is half closed, otherwise I cannot listen to the hissing of the air.
I found this study about wet vacuum cleaners:
http://www.crbnet.it/File/Pubb...
And you can see that the noise of the hose and brush are negligible, most of the noise coming from the engine and fans. I guess the same is valid for hair dryers and dog hair dryers.
Perhaps the quantity of steam out of a lab's live steam is much higher than what you found for the e-cat... • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 35 minutes ago in reply to Daniel Rocha • OK. I'm not sure what you're debating. Whether the steam will make noise? I don't see above that I was making that point, but rather that there'd be a LOT of steam, not a trickle. I also read that entire Polish article on improvements to wet-filter vacuum cleaners, and while it was interesting enough, nowhere did it reference 100 m/s flow. In fact, in the opening write up, it talks about 52 L/s … and nothing in particular about the flow rate.
Point is … there should be a lot of steam coming out of the thing. Since there are apparently NO OTHER MOVING PARTS, the hiss of steam should be easily audible. The testing/demonstration room had no other occupants, and further, it was physically separate from the work area. (At least in Krivit's write up it sounded that way.)
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Reply • Daniel Rocha 29 minutes ago in reply to GoatGuy • The 100 m/s is a very common air speed for vacuum cleaners.
My point is that we cannot trust neither parties without numbers. There could be noise, but some construction or building of machines in the place might had made it inaudible, this is a kind of small factory after all. • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 9 minutes ago in reply to Daniel Rocha • I apologize — I find it somewhat difficult to discuss points on vacuum cleaners further: it seems we're ending up chasing butterflies of the wrong color down a rabbit hole.
I've made a conjecture about volume per second and exhaust rate, and on this the physical mathematics stands. There are a lot of unknowns, but there are reasonable assumptions that can be gleaned from pictures of other demonstrations, from images on the net, from statements made by the host of different observers out there, by Rossi himself. It all kind of comes together with the interpolations I've conjectured.
Point is, that 4.7 KW of heat (one of Rossi's most recent claims) will vaporize 2.0 grams of water, completely, per second. That, in conjunction with a “thick rubber exhaust hose” of common dimension (i.e. “likely”) would result in quite a plume of water vapor venting at relatively high velocity. None of that was observed. Looking back at other older reports, including the Skeptics from Sweden, I also noted a lack of great excesses of emitted steam.
Perhaps the reporting has been there, and perhaps I've not read the critical reports. Someone, next time they see it, would do me a great favor by posting the URL to such reports.
You're certainly right about locally noisy conditions. I don't think however that anyone would overlook 3 liters of steam per second, and fail to be impressed with … after a 15 or 20 minutes … the fact that unless completely vented outside the building, such steam would render the room quite humid. Maybe not “foggy” but certainly humid. And hot. Because you stick a 4700 watt heater in ANY room, and its going to raise the temperature in short order.
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Reply • Daniel Rocha 3 minutes ago in reply to GoatGuy • We'll see how it pans out. Without numbers, I can come up with infinite excuses for anything suspicious in the exposition, e.g. , Rossi didn't want to hold the hose outside because steam would turn on some weird anti fire system/screw up some fragile material nearby/... • Flag •
Reply • OkiePC 1 hour ago in reply to GoatGuy • Quote = GoatGuy: "That's about 30 METERS PER SECOND of exhaust steam. About 100 kilometers per hour, or 60 MPH.
The steam should be just about roaring out of the hose."
This is why I keep calling it a fog machine. Common sense (without even putting a calculator to it) tells me basically what you have computed above. • Flag •
Reply • rats123 4 hours ago • ROFLMAO! Check out Rossi's response to "Roger Barker":
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-... • Flag • GoatGuy liked this
Reply • GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to rats123 • Somewhat unhinged. Let's give him a couple of passes though, shall we? After all, now thousands of people are pestering him with questions, all (of us) incredulous of his supposed discovery, invention and results. Some people here think it pretty damned amazing that I can write up scores of blog-comments a day at times. Rossi is doing at least that many, if not more. Tiring.
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Reply • rats123 4 minutes ago in reply to GoatGuy • But you have all the time in the world don't you Goatie? After all you're sitting at home on the dole! ;-)
Seriously though I find it amazing Rossi spends all hours of the day replying to posts from random people irrespective of how fast he types. • Flag •
Reply • Daniel Rocha 10 hours ago • I don't know if any of you guys are aware but Krivit sometimes implies that Andrea Rossi is a henchman of a spy of the US government to hide the fact that cold fusion does NOT exist. Seriously.
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/n...
In fact, US government wants to hide that element transmutation is what really happens. Like, more or less like with Philosopher's Stone • Flag • Pierre and 1 more liked this
Reply • Pierre 4 hours ago in reply to Daniel Rocha • Also aliens. • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 30 minutes ago in reply to Pierre • funny • Flag •
Reply • steven powell 5 hours ago in reply to Daniel Rocha • Krivit does come across as someone who actively creates the negative environment he lives in. You come up with interesting factoids. Are a fact checker by trade? • Flag •
Reply • Daniel Rocha 5 hours ago in reply to steven powell • Not really, I just got interested in Rossi's E-Cat and started reading things around. Krivit's website is very well organized and so I started reading his articles.
Yes, he does create a negative environment (almost) in the same sense that James Randi creates one when he reveals the tricks of crackpots, that is, by doing rational and calculated inquires into the subjects. The difference is that Krivit puts everything to be in context of the conspiracy theory above. • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to Daniel Rocha • I really didn't get that impression about Krivit. Although his write up is simplistic (and augmented by the lovely use of words like enthalpy), he perhaps missed the thermodynamic consequence of seeing a slowly emminating steam plume in his report (see my discussion of that above).
My impression is that he's just good guy, doing some homework, writing up his views, and as easily impressed by a magician as the next bloke. He sure did not come across as rabidly anti-Rossi or anything of the sort.
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Reply • Daniel Rocha 1 hour ago in reply to GoatGuy • Did you read about the secret agent Michael Melich?
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/n... • Flag •
Reply • steven powell 4 hours ago in reply to Daniel Rocha • I known people with the conspiracy bent and they very fact selective, you can't discuss with them, the is one valid set of facts, "THEIRS" :) • Flag •
Reply • Michael Ellis 13 hours ago • Krivit's preliminary report is fairly devastating, especially given that he explicitly believes in the reality of LENR. Personally, I've now swung from somewhat hopeful to extremely skeptical of the Rossi device. • Flag • 2 people liked this.
Reply • Combinatorics 12 hours ago in reply to Michael Ellis • Welcome to the skeptic club. Rossi could go a very very very long way towards addressing these by giving the devices to several respected testers. I's say give two devices each to MIT and Caltech. One device to operate in a controlled environment for a solid week and another for disassembly. • Flag • oggelbe and 5 more liked this
Reply • GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to Combinatorics • I agree. But if the devices are fraudulent, then he dare not, at least until the 250 of them are delivered to the Greeks. GG • Flag •
Reply • rats123 4 hours ago in reply to Combinatorics • Even though I would love to see independent testing I see no reason Rossi should do this given he is pursuing validation by producing a commercial reactor. His philosophy is let the market decide whether this is real or not. • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to Michael Ellis • Agreed — but not devastating because of any CONCLUSION that he came to numerically, but rather in my mind the circumstantial evidence that points either to Rossi just undramatically leading the guy by the nose through an observation without actually starting the reaction in the way claimed, or more deeply: doing the same legardemain (magic trick) with all the observers so far.
Because 4,700 watts is GOING to boil 2.1 grams of water per second completely, and that is going to result in 3 liters per second of gaseous steam (or the proportion of that based on any other purported energy production output). And that 3 liters needs to get through an exhaust hose. Just think about how fast water comes out of a small diameter garden hose … quick. And how many liters per second can that hose fill up? For this comparison, the material doesn't matter (water, gasoline, steam). Liters per second are liters per second, and hose diameters are hose diameters.
This could be the simplest magic trick yet. Like the “strong man” at the 3 ring circus, lifting over his head an enormous barbell with large lettering proclaiming it to be 700 lbs. But its just really a 100 pound barbell of hollow iron spheres filled full of styrofoam or balsa wood. I you really don't MEASURE the exhaust flow yourself, and really don't try to do the basic gas-phase thermodynamics, a modest, or lazy exhaust of steam might be nearly as convincing as is needed by the magician.
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Reply • steven powell 4 hours ago • Here is a simple suggestion for any and all skeptic-ists and believeIt-ists:
Alot the comments directly or indirectly imply that the Univeristy's physics and chemistry department is incompetent and the dudes from Sweden are fools, or some people are part of a cabal trying to bury it. People are throwing mud based on guesses and opinion. Has anyone here seen anything first hand. If you wont to go find out for yourself, you really need to can it. Poking holes in theories is one thing, throwing mud is childish and inane.
Rossi seems naive and trusting enough the demostrate to people who ask without checking their possible agendas.
He took Krivit at face value as a web journalist, though he seems to me to be a ranting blogger with "HIS" view of
world. Rossi may not be as naive now, but why don't one of you lard-butt paper tigers find someone you trust, who's
in the biz, who speaks Italian, and who is going to the Bolongne area. Make a sincere request to see what is go on.
His got 300 units he says he's testing for godsake. Do some field work and get you hands dirty. Put up or Shut up. • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to steven powell • Again, I disagree with you.
Rossi took the time to show Krivit his system. Krivit got to ask a bunch of questions, and see steam, and be given one-on-one time with the Great Rossi himself. In his turn Krivit wrote up a remarkably sanguine, level-headed acccount of the visit. It even had an amusing jibe about Italians and their coffee machines. It wasn't even a nasty jibe.
Rossi in turn, not unlike a number of the fanboyz here who get all over my case for having the timerity to point out flaws, to conject possible systemic issues and so on, Rossi jumps all over Krivit's writeup, and calls him a clown, names, ALL CAPS and so on. I can see that for Rossi use of the English language is a bit problematic. He's definitely nicer and more coherent in Italian.
I think that us prosaically named "lard-butt paper tigers" are well into the reasoning-by-listening approach, and that this approach IS HITTING HOME. I'd love to offer to our crowd here to go visit Rossi basically because I'm fairly certain that I could sus out the issues, make simple measurements, and put the whole thing behind us: either brilliant success, world-shattering in scope, or just plumb dumb miscalculation of the results (and creative magic demonstration skillz)
Anyone want to donate $100 to the cause? I've got some time, and would make the trip. Even if I'm a "lard-butt paper tiger" (who's actually a goat)
G O A T G U Y • Flag • OkiePC liked this
Reply • OkiePC 6 hours ago • I am a novice in this area of study, only following since the Jan. demonstration. I am going to do the objective thing right now, and reset my skepticism-meter to 50%. It is the upright thing to do. When emotion, and confusion cloud the data; Time-Out! Reset. Go with facts.
Now, with that said, the following is my 50%/50% objective observer, and outsider view, but with a very strong industrial and technical background, with a gigantic heating application for this device, even if the Thermal energy output is only 1.60 times the input energy...it could save my Company thousands if not millions of dollars in a relatively short time. We use upwards of 300,000 of water per night during sanitation procedures and this water is delivered at 500 p.s.i. and 140 to 160 degrees F 100 to 500 g.p.m. (190 on Sundays!) with a city water inlet temperature of about 70 degrees F. It is a very predictable slow ramping change in flow rate and feed-forward signals are readily available which should bode well for the casually specified "one minute" reaction time eluded to for the Rossi Device.
So my interest is practical, and I therefore extend a challenge to Mr. Krivit to respond with a gracious reply, and show calculations of the potential of the device if you assume the worst case measurement error at the output end based on the facts you have gathered. I think I can obtain accurate device specifications of the Clamp Meter, but I trust it was calibrated as Mats Lewan testified. Why should I trust that? Why should I not? The band heater, the pump, even the worst case error of the clamp meter is going to be less than 10% I would expect.
EDIT:http://www.alibaba.com/product...
It all looks legit (hardware wise on the surface). The claims of a 1 to 30 ratio of input and output? Probably idealistic in practice. So what if it's only 1:2? It will still be remarkable.
So what are the facts now?
If he can transform 600gpm 60psi and 70 degrees F into 140 to 160 degree water this is huge for all food processing facilities, due to the impending global carbon tax.
The challenge to Rossi would be shut us all up with a <100 degree C thermal energy test. How much heat can the device supply to that rate of water? It can be at the lower incoming pressure, and heated at only 60psi, but a higher flow rate which I have not yet calculated and monitored.
I am a practical guy. Not from Missouri, just a little to the left of it, but Show Me anyway! I am sure there are other observers who want to witness this "dangerous" little fusion heater do actual work of any kind. Certainly we can come up with donations for a $10k enclosure so we can see one of these darn Golden Goose eggs explode. One video with witnesses of an exploding E-Cat would shut everyone up, and Rossi could preserve what is left of his public image.
Now the other 50%? Divided unevenly between an elaborate hoax with multiple perpetrators and the other possibility that they are just inept. • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 2 hours ago in reply to OkiePC • ( $kgps = 600 gal/min × 3.78 L/gal / 60 sec/m ) = 37.8 L/s [= kg/s]
( $cal = $kgps × 1000 g/kg × (160 F - 70 F ) × ( 5 / 9 ) ) = 1,890,000 calories per sec [= watts]
( $cal / 1000 W/KW / 5 KW/unit ) = 378 units
That's a lot of lil' doggies. Clearly the Rossi Reactor is going to have to scale to a higher specific power per unit.
G O A T G U Y • Flag • OkiePC liked this
Reply • OkiePC 1 hour ago in reply to GoatGuy • Thanks for crunching the numbers. I think 378 would fit in place of the existing, high maintenance, direct fired, gas hog boilers. I expect (assuming actual proof arrives at some point) that it will take years to develop this new fangled water heater to meet our specification. We can't have 378 little hydrogen grenades in my plant any time soon.
;) • Flag • GoatGuy liked this
Reply • DaveMart 4 hours ago in reply to OkiePC • Your version of 50% scepticism seems to mean that if you were told someone had seen a couple of fairies at the bottom of the garden you would probably reply: 'That's absurd! There is likely only one!'
I don't find that a very sceptical attitude.
Confirmation bias seems to be alive and well. • Flag • GoatGuy liked this
Reply • Pierre 4 hours ago in reply to DaveMart • It's a new world out there, where every opinion is just as valuable as every other opinion. Facts be damned. • Flag • GoatGuy liked this
Reply • OkiePC 1 hour ago in reply to Pierre • Facts be internet rumors. facts be weighed and mostly discarded. Until I see one explode on YouTube!
Show me mortarfraggin' BANG! "til then, this country boy calls "Boar fodder."
Put a webcam on this thing and show us a 240 watt electric motor turning an alternator to the 12vdc control system, and unplug the dad-blasted thing from the utility. Park a webcam on it and a stream on his Web Journal. (Happy Fathers Day to all you Dadz out there BTW) .
What I like about Rossi, is he keeps confirming over and over again with confidence, (paraphrasing) 'The customer will be your proof'
I like that about Rossi, that he said that day one, and he's not backed off. SHOUTING on his Journal shows us a real man with real emotion. Does that invalidate his claims about the device? Not really, but it tosses their credibility back into my 50/50 bin.
Even if this thing ends up only being slightly better than 1:1 (for its ultimate total electricity to electricity cycle) it will be the new fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... • ATTACHED FILES • • Flag •
Reply • OkiePC 2 hours ago in reply to DaveMart • That is not a valid analogy at all. I am not saying I believe 50% of what has been said. If all of what's been claimed by the "believers" is based on a foundation of false information, then it will be discredited. I don't think that it is correct to assume that it is impossible until proven otherwise, just as it is wrong to assume that they are all incompetent or liars until proven otherwise.
Any time I come across something that cannot be proven, I try to form opinions (not just one, but many) and weight them all with the alleged facts. Right now, there is nothing being said or done that can swing the pendulum to either conclusion for me. The interesting thing about this device is that there will come a time when we know "it either works or it doesn't".
I simply made a conscious and public decision to give those two possible outcomes equal weight.
Tomorrow, or next week, or on Halloween, the pendulum will surely swing (for me) again. When? Which way? I don't know. That is what makes this so interesting. I don't care if I say I am 99% sure it's a scam or 99% sure that it works, and then the next day, I am proven 99% wrong. There's nothing embarrassing, inferior, or costly to me about being wrong, as long as my paycheck is not on the line.
There are surely folks whose livelihoods will be affected by this. So, their posts should be taken with a grain of salt.
I am not one of them. Just an open-minded, opinionated, and very curious observer. • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to OkiePC • It sure wasn't a valid analogy, but it SURE WAS FUNNY! … Two fairies in the garden … sheesh!
G O A T G U Y • Flag • OkiePC liked this
Reply • OkiePC 1 hour ago in reply to GoatGuy • Yes, it was pretty good, huh? Hats off to DaveMart, his wit reveals something and I have liked many of his texts.
Hey, how do I get italics and bold in this editor (using Chrome browser if that matters?)Thanks, Paul • Flag •
Reply • GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to OkiePC •
italicsboldsmallstrike out
And the above was done by the incredible coding: • <i>
italics</i>
<strong>
bold</strong>
<small>
small</small>
<strike>
strike out</strike> • using the
tag for THIS comment!
GG
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OkiePC 9 hours ago
• Rossi called Krivit a "clown" and said that he tried to blackmail Levi, and that they are going to sick their lawyer on him. Wow, talk about a lack of professionalism. But we are supposed to believe he knows how to measure water vapor in steam, since he has a degree in philosophy, how dare we question him?
Levi said he will not release any data, feeling belittled by Mr. Krivit. I thought Steven was a LENR supporter? He seemed to just want to clarify accurate measurement methods.
Could all this unnecessary drama be caused by a language barrier? Or has the huckster finally been faced with a worthy critic?
Yes, the ugly fog machine will still make money, and I am sure Rossi will Retire Rich.
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sebtal 8 hours ago in reply to OkiePC
• "Levi said he will not release any data, feeling belittled by Mr. Krivit"
Lucky escape?
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GoatGuy 1 hour ago in reply to sebtal
• Well, yes. But again, let's give 'em a few more passes. Krivit should have been trying to make some of his own measures, even if by gum & by golly, gosh durn it Hey, I would've. I'd also have asked Rossi some darn fine questions.
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sebtal 2 minutes ago in reply to GoatGuy
• Oh, sure, I think we can give them a pass, as it is purely annecdotal (ce n'est pas la science) but I did think that the slightly hysterical response to what appears to be at best a slightly sardonic write up at worst was reminiscent of a squid deploying ink.
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Daniel Rocha 38 minutes ago in reply to GoatGuy
• Someone on Krivit's blog offered a very practical solution for all this:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com...
Chuck Bagwell says:June 17, 2011 at 20:33
Steven,As a Steam Power Plant engineer for over 40 years, I think a good way to tell the quality of the steam is with a thermometor. Just stick a good quality thermometer in the steam exiting the hose. If it reads 213 deg F or 101 Deg C it has a slight amount of superheat and is completely dry. If is is just at 212 F it is still saturated with water. It is impossible to rise above 212 F with even a hint of water in it. Just take a look at a standard steam table chart for enthalpy.
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Daniel Rocha 8 hours ago in reply to OkiePC
• Steven Krivit "hates" cold fusion but supports LENR.
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DaveMart 8 hours ago in reply to OkiePC
• They are getting soft. Back in the old days in Dodge, if a man was accused of being a snake-oil salesman, he would have shot him dead!
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nova77 11 hours ago
• Wow, Rossi's reply is pretty angry. He does not spare the exclamation points..
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honzik 11 hours ago in reply to nova77
• Not just angry, but NUTS!!11!!1!eleventy!! I particularly liked the note of paranoia at the end. A nice touch, really.
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nova77 11 hours ago in reply to honzik
• ..but with warm regards. ;)
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honzik 11 hours ago in reply to nova77
• The "warm regards" does put the cherry on the sundae! ;-)
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Akira Shirakawa 13 hours ago
• Has anybody read Levi's and Rossi's reactions to Krivit's report?
They got both linked on Vortex-l mailing list. It might be worth including them here.
Levi's: http://goo.gl/2vr0M
Rossi's: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-...
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While I am very interested in the topic, this kind of post is ridiculous. Post a link, for gawdsakes, instead of wasting FR's disk space and bandwidth (and giving folks with slow connections problems).