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To: darkside321

I hear you, this is why I keep seeing Russia eventually taking Europe if America fails economically.

If America goes off a cliff economically, inflation will be very high, which will mean that only people with very high rates of pay will live comfortably.

Military pay will then become relatively very low; recruiting will be extremely difficult - maintaining conventional forces would be impossible. Of course, ships and planes will also be too expensive to operate and maintain.

And the nukes can’t be used for normal battle, just a last ditch act of desperation. If America is not directly attacked, the nukes don’t make sense, only conventional does, as using a nuke would invite nuke retalation.

So... contrary to what AAAALLLLLLLLL the experts are saying - we need to be prepared - as always throughout history - for massive conventional war. At least being able to scale up quickly with a force to be reckoned with.

If our economy was off a cliff and half our carriers were mothballed, forces cut, air force cut. Then Russia, say, attacked the U.K., taking out missiles and air defense. what if our military told our President that there was no way for us to get involved without disaster for us. And if our Congress and President decided that it was a “european problem”. The UK would be speaking Russian within 2 months. Would they use their nukes ? Doubt it, they be afraid and hesitate too long, cuz they’d be risking nuke annihilation in retaliation. Can’t have that.

From then, it’s Germany, just take out the air defenses, then go around Poland to the south and via the Baltic with a landing force. Poland won’t help, France won’t help.

The rest would fall like dominoes. The UK is the key because it and germany are the only ones who can really put up a fight, but germany can be attacked by land from Russia, it can’t. If Hitler wasn’t crazy, he would have taken out the UK before doing anything else.

Nowadays, troop transport is by air, so air supremacy is needed to safely move troops across the Atlantic in big, lumbering transports. As far as moving by ship, they’re very much easy targets.

The U.S. “defense umbrella” only extends over Europe inasmuch as we have an incredibly powerful naval and air power - and have trillions to spend on keeping them supplied.

And Russian will have both submarines AND air power in the Atlantic to harass shipping.


12 posted on 06/17/2011 2:46:33 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (PC's Tavern...)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Sorry but this is the next wrong impression many americans have. As said the cold war is gone.
Russia is not the USSR are anymore.
There is no way Russia could conquer europe or win a conventinal war with the EU. (Let alone that not even the russian have any interesst in fighting it because the EU is their biggest trading partner and consumes their oil and gas like crazy).
I don´t know where so many americans get the impression that europe is totaly defenceless.
Because it´s not.
Believe me the weapons are there they are just not used this is all.
Yes most of europe has cut its defence budget pretty low but even with this low numbers the EU spends countless times the money russia spends.
Just for example germany alone spends about the same money on defence like russia. (now add the rest of the 26 EU countries too this list and it becomes a no contest and btw. there exists an obligation treaty for the EU countries since the lissbon treaty).
Really only the US does spend more money (granted a lot more) on defence than the EU.
This is a fact.
The defence weapons are there (not in the same numbers like the US has it but they are there).
This reports from nato paint a wrong picture about europe.
They don´t have a fighter shortage because there don´t exist anymore fighters to bomb libya for example.
They have a fighter shortage because nobody is willing to send them for a war in north africa which is more or less nothing of “our” business.
Same is for all european missions.
The weapons are there (They just rot back home in europe) because the public is just not willing to send them in large numbers for wars in forreign places.
Just for example there was the chad mission some years ago to protect some refugess somewhere in africa.
A few tousand EU soldiers for africa.
There have been reports around that they EU doesn´t even manage to get 20 helicopters for it.
Well it was true (but it was allso true that they didn´t get the helicopters because the people back home said what helos for Africa? WTF? F+ck em who cares about this hell hole so the politicians have been forced to not commit them (at least if they wanted to get voted again).
But don´t think that those choppers didn´t exist.
Quite ironic when all tell you Sorry but we can not send only a single one and one week later 50 Black hawks (from the same country) show up at a local air show ;-)
Again the weapons are there!


13 posted on 06/17/2011 3:29:55 AM PDT by darkside321
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