Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: DJ Elliott

Yes, but Iraq has received both division and corps level operations training. While it’s common to have paper divisions in the region, the largest organic command they can functionally field is brigade sized.

An operational division can often outperform twice or three times its size of separate brigades. This is one tremendous force multiplier. Then a second is an appreciation for logistics, maintenance, air transport and resupply.

The typical ME country sinks all its efforts into combat arms with no interest or attention to maintenance or resupply. For this reason, their operations are “brittle”. If anything breaks, or they have to sustain operations, they quickly grind to a halt. Even in peacetime much of their equipment is waiting on parts or essential maintenance.

And as the Israelis noted, they think ammunition is fireworks, so have zero fire discipline.

Last but not least, the Iraqi training programs would make WT Sherman proud. Most of the ME just throws hot bodies into uniforms and hands them a rifle. On top of it, the Iraqi army has a lot of experience in lower level combat operations.

By comparison, with some US military training, the ARVN, with no resupply, still managed to hold out against the NVA with bottomless resupply, for two years on their own. The US military bitterly remembers that betrayal, so has gone to extreme lengths to insure it does not happen again to the IA, even if the US congress tries the same abandonment.


16 posted on 06/09/2011 11:55:21 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies ]


To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

The IA has not formed any corps yet.
Divisional exercises only started last year.

Most of the IA is still drilling at Bn level.
Only 5 IA Divisions are being drilled at Bde and Div level.
[3rd, 5th, 7th, 8th, and 10th.]
And most of their training is still at Bn for external defense.

There are major differences between being good for COIN and being capable of conventional warfare.
E.G. They only formed their first divisional artillery battalion recently as part of getting their first functional howitzers a couple of months ago. [105th FAR/5th Div]

There is a reason why IMoD and IA all say they will not be ready until 2020. It is not just air. They are missing major support and combat components.

Your characterization of the IA is grossly exagerated.


17 posted on 06/09/2011 8:54:03 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

I have said this before and it remains true today.
The IA is on par with ROKA circa June 1950 without the terrain benifits of Korea:
No significant artillery.
No significant anti-armor capability.
No significant armor compared to the neighbors.
No air defense at all.
Missing Level 1 and Level 3 logistics support.

Capable of internal security but, on their own they would loose in under 2 weeks to any of the neighbors if they choose to invade Iraq.

The fiction about how good the IA is - It is just propaganda justification for pulling the US out.
Kuwait, with an army the size of a re-enforced Mech Div, outguns the IA in every category except infantry.

The IA is not equipped or trained for external defense.
That external defense training started November 2010.
That external defense equipment is still in grossly insufficient numbers and what has arrived they still have to learn how to properly employ.
Their logistics and C2 is not built up to support the units they have. Major components are missing.
They are a decade from having an realistic air defense since they have no air defense at all.

I don’t know who is feeding you the bumb-gouge, I have been tracking their developments for years. They are 10 years from what you describe by IMoD’s own self-appraisal.

By the way, I am the same DJ Elliott that everyone plagerizes the ISF OOB from.

http://home.comcast.net/~djyae/site/?/page/Iraq_Order_of_Battle/

That OOB is updated monthly and is the result of 60-100 hours of research each month.


18 posted on 06/09/2011 9:44:56 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

PS The IA only started forming Divisional Communications Battalions last year.

If they don’t have the comms to coordinate at divisional level, how are they supposed to be trained to fight at that level?

You can’t train on what you don’t have. At best, the IA is trained to brigade level only. The higher is a work in progress.

I probably need to do another monster article listing the missing components of the IA - to provide a reality check.

Been too busy writing a novel to work on that list of headaches.


19 posted on 06/14/2011 9:48:33 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

http://www.dvidshub.net/video/118131/4th-infantry-division-oversees-advise-train-and-assist-mission

Like I said, the IA is still a battalion level functional army. I would love to know where you are getting the claim that they are seriously trained at Bde, Div, and Corps level. They don’t have the equipment or all the component units for those levels.

No authoritative source rates them as high as you claim.

Even the Iraqis do not plan to be at the level you claim until 2020.

IMOD Phase 1 [2005-2010]: Tactical Independence
IMOD Phase 2 [2011-2015]: Operational Independence
IMOD Phase 3 {2016-2020]: Strategic Independence


20 posted on 06/15/2011 11:27:14 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

http://www.dvidshub.net/video/120307/maj-gen-jefferey-buchanan-part-1


24 posted on 07/08/2011 10:21:35 PM PDT by DJ Elliott (Montrose Toast Blog)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson