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In all fairness to this argument...

How can entities like the CIA, NSA, FBI or DoD get anyone remotely at the top of their field vs. private security, defense contractors, Google, Apple, MS etc. if they don’t pay an above average salary.

Old argument at NSA was most of their best brains could make more money making the new Halo or Madden than doing national security work.

Now of course we will probably agree with that sentiment. However you can’t tell me SS, Agriculture, Education,HHS, Energy, Interior etc. aren’t completely filled with useless bodies.

They can’t, they have to pay a competitive wage. Especially when you’re talking about doctors, lawyers, scientists, and national security specialists. The problem is all the unionized bureaucrats - there’s over a million unionized federal workers, and we all know what that means.

Please don't inject reason in the discussion. I'm an Engineering Manager for DOD. I manage/lead about 50 government and contractor engineers. I made more money 8 years ago when I was a grunt engineer in private sector. I was doing this at a GS-13 salary up until recently. I came to DOD because of the unique lab I would be working. Seemed like a good idea at the time I took the job. Now i am in management and the money still isn't as good as our regular engineering contractors that support us. It was my choice and I don't regret the decision. I'm getting to do some very useful stuff for the war fighter but the money is about 25K less. I had better benefits at every company I worked for previously compared to the DOD. So that's BS.

Maybe some other areas the government over pays but it isn't in engineering. Based on my time of service and how bad the economy is I have a feeling I will see a RIF in 3-5 years. I have the death nail on my resume now - Government Worker. I feel very pessimistic about everyones future.

I know there are bad government employees (10%) and in private sector I would say (3%-5%) are worthless. So 2 to 3 times more dumb asses running around at DOD. I'm sure its worse (MUCH WORSE) in those areas that are positively unconstitutional in their scope (Dept of Energy, Education, ...)

I don't take it personal when everyone bashes Govt employees. I just picture the dumb ass down the hall that “works” 3 hours a day and bitches about how busy she is and figure everyone is talking about her. :)