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To: Sherman Logan; bushpilot1
What we don’t have, very oddly, is any indication they ever discussed Vattel or his notions.

I notice that you never posted on this thread - Vattel Cited: Records of the Federal Convention1787 (Natural Born Citizen) . What do you make of the references to Vattel, and the letters between the convention participants (regardless of whether the discussions made it to the Federalist Papers?

-PJ

61 posted on 06/02/2011 10:59:03 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (Everyone's Irish on St. Patrick's Day, Mexican on Cinco de Mayo, and American on Election Day.)
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To: Political Junkie Too

Okey, doke.

I looked up the five mentions of Vattel in the book you cite.

Here they are:

Page 334 “. In order to prove that individuals in a State of nature are equally free & independent he read passages from Locke, Vattel, Lord Summers — Priestly. To prove that the case is the same with States till they surrender their equal sovereignty, he read other passages in Locke & Vattel, and also Rutherford: that the States being equal cannot treat or confederate so as to give up an equality of votes without giving up their liberty: that the propositions on the table were a system of slavery for 10 States”

Page 337 “The first principle of government is founded on the natural rights of individuals, and in perfect equality. Locke, Vattel, Lord Somers, and Dr. Priestly, all confirm this principle.”

“We must treat as free states with each other, upon the
same terms of equality that men originally formed themselves into societies. Vattel, Rutherford and Locke, are united in support of the position, that states, as to each other, are in a state of nature.

Page 339 “The States are equal & must have equal Influence and equal votes — I will proceed on first principls. every man out of society is equal, in Freedom, & every other quality of man — Lock, Vattel, & others prove this position”

That’s it. Not once quoted directly. Not once listed by himself as the prime authority behind the idea of the Constitution. Always part of a list of authors supporting the speaker’s position.

You may also note that every single mention is part of speeches by small state delegates supporting the idea that all states should have equal power under the Constitution, a remarkably silly idea. Not once is he cited on anything even vaguely to do with citizenship or qualifications for the executive power.

BTW, here’s the whole book, including in searchable ebook format.

http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=1057&Itemid=99999999


63 posted on 06/02/2011 12:00:33 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Political Junkie Too

Here’s an interesting list of the authors cited by the Founders, looking at all their writings as a whole.

http://www.constitution.org/primarysources/influences.html

Vattel is #30 of 37 at .50%. This compares to Montesquieu at #2 (8.3%). Most notably, Blackstone, who held views on “natural born-ness” quite different from those of Vattel, came in at #3 (7.9%).

Vattel actually tied for last place with 12 other writers.

To me this is a very good indication Vattel was a quite minor influence on the Founders. He was not unknown, but was vastly outweighed in importance by Blackstone and others.


64 posted on 06/02/2011 12:11:37 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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