Yeah, the good old days on FR when we could Zot! the obvious trolls.
Posted on 05/31/2011 1:44:23 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Sarah Palin was asked Tuesday about the sticky subject of ethanol subsidies, and she said that not only they should they be squelched but that all federal energy subsidies should be eradicated.
"I think that all of our energy subsidies need to be relooked at today and eliminated," Palin told Real Clear Politics at a coffee shop in Dillsburg, Pa. "And we need to make sure that we're investing and allowing our businesses to invest in reliable energy products right now that aren't going to necessitate subsidies because, bottom line, we can't afford it."
Ever the maverick, Palin was responding was in direct opposition to Mitt Romney, who last week in Iowa, came out in favor of government subsidies for ethanol, the fuel produced from corn and other farm products.
"I support the subsidy of ethanol. I believe ethanol's an important part of our energy solution in this country," Romney told a supporter from West Des Moines on Friday.
Neither former governor has officially stated his or her intention to run for the GOP nomination for president; however, Romney is expected to throw his hat in the ring later this week.
One former governor who has committed to running is Tim Pawlenty. In fact, it was in his statement announcing his candidacy that he also backed the elimination of ethanol and other energy subsidies. Unlike Palin, however, Pawlenty wants to take it slowly.....
(Excerpt) Read more at latimesblogs.latimes.com ...
Here is the story (from another Fox show):
And Democrat Frost basically repeats Palin’s assertion.
The water use by ethanol plants looks impressive to city slickers who aren’t used to being around irrigated ag.
On our hay farm, growing alfalfa for cattle, we used up far more water than corn every would. Like at least three times as much in a 100 day growing season.
People crap kittens when they see numbers of “million gallons per day.” Pfah.
I had four pumps that would pump 1,000 gallons per minute (some more, some less, but aggregated, it came out to 4K gal/min). In a 24-hour day, our farm was pumping over 5 million gallons on 500 acres of irrigated ground.
Irrigated corn and water for ethanol processing is a drop in the bucket of overall ground water usage in the US.
Want to get your panties in a wad about something? Go look at how much water a damn golf course uses. It is absurdly more than any irrigated crop in the US, acre for acre.
Good to hear!
End all forms of subsidies for any and all purposes
ASA Vet posts birth information of EVERY potential candidate, not just Palin.
A gentle reminder of what is going on at the White Hut.
Read up on “acidosis” in cattle as a result of feeding raw corn. Feeding DDG’s is better for the cattle.
But to your second point: If push comes to shove on food prices, you’ll see beef and milk prices skyrocket. About half of our corn and bean crops go into feedlot and TMR dairy rations, with some by-products of other crops (wheat mids, for example) also going into cattle feed. Add in pork feed is mostly grain, horses get grain, etc.
In the US, we used to have more acres than we have in corn tied up in the production of hay for horses for use as transportation and draft animals. We’re currently using about 90 million acres for corn - we used to have almost 100 million acres in hay for horses.
“I would crawl over broken glass, naked, covered in lemon juice to vote for this woman.”
THE VISUAL IS TO MUCH...lol
Another thing not mentioned so far:
Corn, as a crop, is what is known as a “heavy feeder” in terms of fertilizer. The runoff from all this fertilizer scoots directly down the Mississippi River and into the Gulf, resulting in the so-called “algae blooms” that enviros complain about. It’s believed that these play a role in the dead spots in the gulf.
So, in order to allow farmers to continue to overdose on corn/ethanol and the subsidies, they have removed phosphorous from your laundry detergent, dish soap, automatic dishwashing soap, etc. Which is why you’re washing a lot of things twice these days.
The problem with using all of the corn as a feedstuff is that we have way, way, way, too much corn.
We produce too much food, including meats, and exports are absolutely critical for agriculture.
For example, did you know that the pork industry was only 90 days from total and complete collapse last spring (2010)? The pending collapse was due, in large part, to the mountains of surplus corn, more than could possibly be used as feedstuffs.
We would have lost well over 90% of our pork supply had that happened. The producers hung on by the skin of their teeth.
Yeah, the good old days on FR when we could Zot! the obvious trolls.
Thankfully, no one will ever have to see that. :)
I have nothing against ethanol, if it was not subsidized (per your prev. post - mainly through the oil companies). However, your information is interesting:
1. The farmers receive no direct subsidy “for ethanol” unless they’re part owners in an ethanol plant (and some farming co-ops are). The per-gallon blenders credit goes to the oil companies to put the stuff into your gasoline. Ethanol is merely another market buyer for their corn, along with feedlots, pig feeding operations, HFCS suppliers, etc. That’s it. The same field corn will go to any of these outfits.
2. As long as there is the correct differential between gasoline and corn prices, making corn into ethanol will be profitable. Want a free market where corn for ethanol becomes non-viable? Crater the price of gasoline while you keep the price of corn high. Ethanol disappears overnight.
#1 has to play into #2, right?
Palin dealt with the Majors using pretty much the same tactics that the oil sheiks did mto get what they wanted. Until she came along, they simply paid off pols like Murkowski. Both the oilmen and the Democrats knew she couldn;t be bought, so they dealed and got something. Of course the oil companies have tried to welsh on the deal, pleading a change in the situation. But this is what they always do.
Right on, Mitt is sucking up in Iowa, Ethanol country. If Mitt is the GOP choice that is the effective end of the party.
Sarah’s non-krackhead parents vouch for her-—ain’t that a neat twist? If you’d been paying attention you’d know this had been dealt with back when she ran for mayor of Wasilla. Loosen your headband a bit and let some oxygen in please.
As I said farmers are not the bad guys, and you have listed, accurately, many of the root causes.
I can think of few enterprises with more risk for investing such a large percentage of personal wealth.
I am aware of how spoiled the US populace is regarding the low prices (not low cost) and high quality and abundance of US farm produce. Food prices have been artificially low for decades, and the value of the dollar has been largely destroyed, leaving the farmer doubly cheated.
You are correct that the restricted production of oil is a major culprit here, and a proper oil market would make ethanol for fuel moot.
My primary purpose in my posts is the falsehood that ethanol is useful for pollution control in gasoline vehicles. When a product is unnecessary, detrimental, inefficient, and uneconomical, ya have good reason not to subsidize it.
You're right, food prices must rise, oil supplies must rise, and farmers must be treated fairly.
IF all the fossil energy were oil then the output would be about 1.6 gal ethanol per gallon of oil (0.63 gal oil to one gal of ethanol). That blasts your " it takes at least 1.3 gallons of oil to make one gallon of corn ethanol" right out of the water!
NVDave says "China et al are buying HUGE stocks of our crops and taking away all prior assumptions of year-to-year surpluses (called “carry-out” in farmer lingo)."
That makes absolute sense when I look at food prices & our family food budget.
DJ69,
Ever spend some time actually looking at modern farming methods popular these days ? Successful farmers use sat photo data, GPS and computer-controls to preciselyh regulate the application of everything - from fertilizer to herb/pest cides - these days due to sheer economic neccessity.
Don’t suppose all that alleged “farm fertilizer” ran off lawns and from septic systems perchance ? Or sewage plants ? Even the USDA acknowledges more fertilizer, and control chemicals are used on lawns than crop land.
I’ve long proposed sampling of development runoff and comparing it to the same samplings of field runoff. Not had any takers yet....>PS
Follow up: For an average income citizen (and I’m pretty darn average income at best, depending on if 2011 goes well) —
For every dollar of my taxes that goes to agriculture subsidies (ethanol aside for the moment), what is the return in lower food prices for, say, a “typical” family of 4? (Ok, my family is 3, but 4 is close enough.) :-)
I do realize that food prices in the U.S. are a relatively low % of a family’s expenditures, but if the prices are going to double, what is the return? Or presently, just what return are my tax dollars used for subsidies getting?
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