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Again, a serious misuse of the RINO acronym, and at the same time a very clear attempt to hide the fact that the people we are talking about are actually LEFTWINGTARDS (aka, Liberals, Democrats, Lefties, Commies, Pinkos).

A RINO is historically a Democrat who couldn't make headway in the local Democrat machine so he or she agreed to run as a Republican and to caucus with them in the legislature, city council or Congress.

We used the technique to break the SOLID SOUTH and convert those poor people to the correct Republican point of view.

The use of "old establishment Republicans" is certainly confusing here, but that's because you are attempting to confound RINO with "Country Club Republican" ~ a totally different matter.

As you know all political parties in this country are coalitions of well identified interest groups or social strata.

Classically your business class (storekeepers, factory owners, bankers) didn't run directly for office but instead they undertook the chore of party organization, candidate recruitment and campaign work ~ including fund raising.

They incidentally all belonged to countryclubs ~ or the local atheneum turnverein (right!).

The broad masses of Republican voters came from the skilled trades and farmers.

So, please, please, please don't get all balled up here trying to identify the "old establishment", aka "country clubbers" with the RINOs. The "old establishment" consists of several of our larger factions AND contributes most of the money to make the party run. You go alienating them you've lost the party and are on your own.

So, RINOs were not ever Republicans, but they were Democrats elected as Republicans ~ several still sit in the Senate ~ one of them from Alabama BTW. As time goes on there'll be less need for that sort of process ~ except maybe in Massachusetts where it looks like we still have to run a probable Democrat as a Republican to get into office.

Now, Rockefeller Republicans ~ like Richard Nixon, like Gerald Ford, like Dwight David Eisenhower ~ they were not ever Democrats. They weren't even particular Left of Center ~ but none of them held positions regarding national health care that can be considered all that Republican. They also had problems with the Religious Right (as the Democrats called them), or Social Issue Republicans as we now refer to them.

They were also virulently ANTI COMMUNIST, and that used to differentiate US from the Democrats. They were SOFT ON COMMUNISM ~ still are ~ but that's sort of meaningless today, but I remember that they wanted us to surrender to the Soviets without a shot being fired.

All those Rockefeller Republicans and Neocon Democrats supported the idea of an American victory over the World Communist Menace ~ which I think you've forgotten. BTW, none of the RINOs got the use of the Republican label without also being profoundly anti-communist.

I'd like for you to maintain some standards in this business of shouting out the names of the different factions in the party ~ else no one will know what you are talking about. Right now I gather you don't like hard core real Conservatives!