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To: Molon Labbie
Excuse me, how long have you been on a SWAT team, because SWAT/ERT will take into consideration that a child may be in a house, but that will not deter them from executing search/arrests. I have sat through dozens of SWAT briefings and whether there are children or not is ALWAYS discussed, but it does not change the go/no go. If it did, people would just use their children as shields all the time.

You and I both know that if you are serving a high risk warrant, you have intelligence done on the location prior to the raid. In this case, that was not done. The PR spokesman was not aware that there was wife/child in the home at the time of the raid. That indicates to me, that they were unprofessional in their assessment. If you really were involved with SWAT you would know that children present in home of planned raid with suspected firearms is suboptimal.

They are not required to provide a copy of the search warrant to the public, only to the person(s) being served or their designated attorney. You wouldn’t want your personal information out in the public, now would you? That is what is commonly found in search warrants as well as why the police are there and what they are looking for.

The family of the deceased never received a copy of the warrant, that is why they hired an attorney to find out why the house was raided.

EMS WILL NOT come to a scene that is not secure. PERIOD. They do not care how many citizens or police or firefighters are down. They won’t do it unless it is safe for them to work. If SWAT fired 71 rounds this man was dead, and the medic on the team is qualified to make that assessment, he does not need a second opinion.

A) The small house was not declared 'secure' for over an one hour and 14 minutes after the husband was murdered. Very strange as you can clear a small home quickly. B) Pima SWAT has their own EMT, yet the man was never given any medical attention according EMS. C) This refusal to allow medical treatment will taint any jury pool as it appears malicious. "His wife Vanessa told KGUN9 she called 911 and pleaded with deputies to treat his wounds."

"The 911 call center notified Drexel Heights at 9:43am. A unit arrived just two minutes later at 9:45. But deputies told rescue workers to stay put. That's standard to be sure they won't walk into danger. But they waited until 10:59. Then heard the radio call "Code 900", that means they were no longer needed because the person was dead. Drexel Heights indicates they were never allowed to even examine Jose Guereña."

It is standard procedure to seal court records in drug conspiracy case until indictments are unsealed.

The records were sealed after the botched raid not prior. This is interesting as it seems to be a defensive cover.

Some people want to excuse this guy because he was a Marine and a war hero. Anyone, Marines, Police, Navy SEALS can turn bad and get into a life of crime. Two of the deadliest snipers in history were Marines and the Marines don’t claim those who turn their back on their Corps Values.

The murder victim served two tours in Iraq, worked at mine, and has no previous criminal record. You just crapped all over a man who served his country and was killed by police trying to protect his family from a home invasion without any evidence to back up criminal wrong doing on his part. Classy.

The PD made a public statement that they found evidence of the conspiracy. They are going to have to stand on that. What it is remains to be seen but it is sealed because of unindicted and possibly unidentified co-conspirators.

Yet, to date, no one has been arrested more than a week later.

Someone asked when these raids are going to stop? Well, never completely. But the majority will stop when drugs are legalized. Until then, people will deal dope, buy rifles to protect their product and proceeds and will continue to be confronted by police.

Any sane person wants to see a whole lot less of these and legalizing drugs so that happens is a good answer.


Failure at logic. Why would legalizing drugs make no knock raids less dangerous? What this was is a poorly executed search warrant, it exposed both police and a homeowner to unnecessary violence. The victim worked at a mine, why not detain him up at work away from the search site so it does not become an armed barricade situation? Also, you are responsible for ever round fired, explain to the neighborhood where your 71 rounds went.
34 posted on 05/12/2011 7:48:54 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: WaterBoard
PIMA SWAT



The Tactical Emergency Medical Support element provides emergency medical support to the entire SWAT team and suspects or victims requiring emergency medical services. TEMS is staffed by paramedics from the Pima County Sheriff's Department. The paramedics are fully integrated into the Tactical element and respond to all missions where SWAT is involved.
35 posted on 05/12/2011 7:51:24 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: WaterBoard

First point of BS. The PR person may not have seen the tactical operations plan that any SWAT team does nor is it likely to be released for public view. It specifically says if there is any intelligence on children and likely locations in the house, if it can be determined. Suboptimal or not, these is not a major deciding factor on go/no go. If they waited for optimal, they would never go.

Second point of BS. Common lawyer tactic to say the search warrant was never presented to the defendant. It attacks the very beginning of the chain of evidence, which any lawyer tries if they can’t beat the probable cause. EVERY search warrant has a return and inventory of which a copy is given to the defendant of the evidence seized. If they are not present, or refuse to sign it, it is left in a conspicuous place.

Third point of BS. ANY police officer can declare a person deceased if it is blatantly evident that he or she is so. The man was DRT, ok? He did not survive being hit so many times and the official coroners report will back this up. Cause of death: ex sanquination, means: gunfire.

Yes, the records were sealed after the raid. It’s not a coverup, I explained why they do that. If they did another raid immediately after that, and ten more after that one, they would still seal the case because of unindicted co-conspirators.

Drugs legal, less raids, less citizens dead, less cops dead. Now see the logic? Who says it was a no-knock? Do you know the circumstances in which no-knock authority is given by a judge? I don’t know the decedent’s criminal history, but if the intelligence bears out that he has violent criminal history, has known firearms, and military training, well, that’s about as good as it gets for no-knock authorization. This article does not say what it was.

I crapped all this man? He served. So what? I served. So did Timothy McVeigh, who earned a Bronze Star. He was a war hero too, at one time. But he, like the decendent, got involved in illegal activity. Guerenas got a search warrant issued on his house based on PROBABLE CAUSE, that’s part of the evidence and evidence found at the scene. But nice try at trying to ignore that.

SWAT commanders also take into consideration of allowing the suspect to leave his home and allowing plain clothes detectives to make the contact. This is in itself presents new tactical problems. People can barricade themselves at work, take hostages, then we have one of them demanding to know why this wasn’t done at home. Would you rather plan an operation to take a person down at a large employer with hundreds of employers and vast areas to search, or do it in a small contained area?

You let people get mobile in a vehicle they put hundreds at risk. In my experience they considered this man a high risk contact they needed to contain, as well as make a concerted effort to preserve the evidence contained in the home.

You call this poorly executed because someone died and because it does not match your uninformed expectations. The decedent made poor choices in life with getting involved in the narcotics trade, KNEW that a SWAT raid was not only a possibility but was a probability the longer he engaged in this activity and STILL carried on. I surmise he knew he was caught and was going down shooting, all of which could have been avoided if he did not point a rifle at officers and did not choose the life he did.

SWAT teams make a diligent effort to use tactical ammunition that expends it’s energy inside the body and not go through six houses. No one want’s that. Without the power of GOOGLE, you would be hard pressed to find any stories of innocents hit by SWAT teams using over penetrative rounds.


40 posted on 05/12/2011 12:17:47 PM PDT by Molon Labbie
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