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To: WhiskeyX
For the purposes of administering the law, the legal father is Barack Hussein Obama I, regardless of whether or not he also happens to be the bilogical father of Barack Hussein II. The legal father is recorded so in the Certificate of Live Birth and the divorce papaers. If there happens to be a different biological father, the law does not care and will not take legal notice until and unless there is a court hearing and court decision ordering a change in the already recorded determiination of the legal father.

As one who has been adopted, I'm fully aware that you can put all sorts of false information on a legal document, and it's still good enough for the legal system. As a person who prefers reality over sophistic legal arguments, It makes a difference to me what the REAL reality is.

175 posted on 05/06/2011 12:19:49 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (I hate to admit it, but Barack is an American.)
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To: DiogenesLamp
As one who has been adopted, I'm fully aware that you can put all sorts of false information on a legal document, and it's still good enough for the legal system. As a person who prefers reality over sophistic legal arguments, It makes a difference to me what the REAL reality is.

We're not talking about "Sophistry." We're not talking about "false information." As someone who was adopted, you certainly should know that there is a distinct and very real difference between a biological parent versus a legal parent, adoptive parent, and/or a legal guardian. Each has a distinct and real world meaning and differing set of rights and responsibilities in any society, even setting aside the legal fine points and legal doctrines.

Cultures long ago decided the determination of the biological father may be unknowable in various circumstances. Accordingly, these societies decided to establish customs and laws to cope with the reality that they may not be able to make a reliable determination of who the biological father may be or the biological father's identity is irrelevant to the question of whom the child owes allegiance in the family in any event. The real world response was to disregard the identity of the biological father for certain purposes and make the determinaton of rights and duties of the child the responsibility of the legal father, who usually also happened to be the biological father. These realities are reflected in the laws regarding parental rights and citizenship laws and customs. See the Hawaiian statutes:

§338-12 Evidentiary character of certificates. Certificates filed within thirty days after the time prescribed therefor shall be prima facie evidence of the facts therein stated. Data pertaining to the father of a child is prima facie evidence if:

(1) The alleged father is:

(A) The husband of the mother; or

(B) The acknowledged father of the child; or

(2) The father and child relationship has been established under chapter 584. Data pertaining to the alleged father acknowledging paternity of the child is admissible as evidence of paternity in any family court proceeding, including proceedings under chapter 584. [L 1949, c 327, §16; RL 1955, §57-15; HRS §338-12; am L 1975, c 66, §2(2); am L 1994, c 23, §1]

§338-21 Children born to parents not married to each other.

(a) All children born to parents not married to each other, irrespective of the marriage of either natural parent to another,

(1) on the marriage of the natural parents with each other, (2) on the voluntary, written acknowledgments of paternity under oath signed by the natural father and the natural mother, or

(3) on establishment of the parent and child relationship under chapter 584, are entitled to the same rights as those born to parents married to each other and shall take the name so stipulated by their parents or, if the parents do not agree on the name, shall take the name specified by a court of competent jurisdiction to be the name that is in the best interests of the child. The original certificate of birth shall contain the name so stipulated. The child or children or the parents thereof may petition the department of health to issue a new original certificate of birth, and not a duplicate of the original certificate that has been amended, altered, or modified, in the new name of the child, and the department shall issue the new original certificate of birth. As used in this section "name" includes the first name, middle name, or last name.

(b) The evidence upon which the new original certificate is made, and the superseded original certificate shall be sealed and filed and may be opened only upon order of a court of record.

(c) If the child's natural parents marry each other and desire to change the child's name, the child's name may be changed and a new original certificate of birth prepared. (d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the power of the courts to order the department to prepare new certificates of birth under section 584-23.

[L 1949, c 327, §25; RL 1955, §57-24; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; am L 1967, c 6, §2; HRS §338-21; am L 1975, c 66, §2(4); am L 1980, c 153, §5; am L 1983, c 65, §2; am L 1986, c 287, §1; am L 1987, c 100, §2; am L 1988, c 141, §27; am L 1993, c 131, §3]

Regardless of whether or not anyone wants to believe the released birth certicates or certifications are reporting accurate information, the divorce records and other evidence are rather overwhelming in establishing that the father for legal purposes and the divorce proceeding as barack Hussein Obama I.

The statutes are rather unequivocal and final about insisting upon a court decision and a court order being required to alter this legal parental relationship. Everyone is free to speculate about the biological parentage. The legal parentage, however, is rather indisputable and well documented.

207 posted on 05/06/2011 1:49:39 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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