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To: Mr Rogers

There’s no real distinction here. The natives and indigenous are defined as being born in the country to citizen parents. The concept of native-born, as the founders understood it, still revolved around being born to citizens. It makes complete sense then, given the 1781 translation of sujet naturels, that Vattel was revised to say natural born citizens in 1797. Thanks for proving you were wrong.


62 posted on 04/25/2011 9:01:09 AM PDT by edge919
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To: edge919

“It makes complete sense then, given the 1781 translation of sujet naturels, that Vattel was revised to say natural born citizens in 1797.”

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It makes sense to revise the translation so it would say something it doesn’t say in the original...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only in Birtherland!


64 posted on 04/25/2011 9:05:27 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: edge919; Mr Rogers; bushpilot1
Natural, Native and Indigenous were synonymous in the 1700's, into the 1800's.

It's why we see Chief Justice Marshall state in THE VENUS, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814):

"Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says "The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens."

Here, we see the great Chief Justice Marshall (who would have studied Vattel's legal treatise "Law of Nations" at the country's first law school...the College of William and Mary...introduced to the school's curriculum in 1779 by Thomas Jefferson) directly quoting, by name, Vattel's work specifically.

It's why we see Chief Justice Waite state

"At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar [edit: this nomenclature they were familiar with is directly mirrored to the definition found in Law of Nations...which the framers read and referenced during the Constitutional Convention], it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens,"
in Minor v. Happersett (1875)

Vattel's original French, From Chapter XIX, 212 regarding Citizens and Naturals (Citizens):

"Les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parens citoyens"

Translated to English:

"the natural, or indigenous, are those born in the country, parents who are citizens

The terms were interchangeable then.

It appears that, in the years after the WKA ruling (in 1898), the term "native" has taken on a new meaning when it comes to citizenship.
Of course, WKA was found to be a "citizen" (and not a "natural born Citizen") due to the fact that his parents were perminantly domociled in the country...and conducting business here.
It interesting to note, that Associate Justice Horace Gray (who delivered the majority opinion) was appointed to the bench by non other than the original usurper...Chestur Arthur...who was born in this country...but to a foreign national father and who burned his papers prior to his death, undoubtably to cover his tracks as being born a British subject (inherited from his foreign national father).
 
The royal dictionary, french and english, and english and french
Author: A. Boyer
Publisher: T. Osborne, 1764
Original from Ghent University


From: http://books.google.com/books?id=k7c_AAAAcAAJ



 
A dictionary of the English language. Abstracted from the folio ed., by the author. To which is prefixed, an English grammar. To this ed. are added, a history of the English language
Author: Samuel Johnson
Edition: 3
Published: 1768
Original from: Oxford University
Digitized: Aug 10, 2006

From: http://books.google.com/books?id=bXsCAAAAQAAJ



 
The new spelling dictionary
Author: John Entick
Published: 1780
Original from: University of Lausanne
Digitized: Feb 27, 2008

From: http://books.google.com/books?id=xZUPAAAAQAAJ

 

More recently:


Baldwin’s Century Edition of Bouvier’s Law Dictionary. Published by The Banks Law Publishing Company in 1926

Hat tip to BP1 for the great "$2 dollar" find.

87 posted on 04/25/2011 11:31:28 AM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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