Jury finds that Jones's protest would breach peace

ABC ^ | 04/22/2011 | Staff

[OldDeckHand]

DETROIT (WXYZ) - The jury has found that a proposed protest by Quran-burning pastor Terry Jones outside the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, the largest mosque in the United States, is likely to breach the peace and incite violence.

The jury has been debating since 3:30 p.m .Thursday. The main issue of the trial was whether or not Jones' main purpose was to say or do something that would incite violence.

[oneolcop]

My point is that if we just show up in front of the AbbaJabba mosque at three o'clock on Friday and burn a koran, we don't have to ask for a peace bond, permit or anyone's permission.

JUST DO IT! Let the authorities react to us, instead of us reacting to them.

[OldDeckHand]

"My point is that if we just show up in front of the AbbaJabba mosque at three o'clock on Friday and burn a koran, we don't have to ask for a peace bond, permit or anyone's permission."

Just to clarify for people keeping score at home, Jones didn't "ask for a peace bond". The county prosecutor filed a civil suit demanding that Jones post a peace bond. As best I can tell (although I'm not positive), Jones' planned activities did not require any kind of permit in that particular municipality. Permits are generally only required (and constitutionally permissible) for holding marches, or parades or when using public property to host your demonstration - like on the National Mall or in a town square, for instance

Could Jones have just shown up without announcing his intentions? Sure, but the point of his exercise was one of publicity. It's tough to get publicity if you don't tell the reporters when and where you're going to be.

[antivenom]

mind numbing....have really become a nation of cowards...thru the PC thought police?

[Carley]

Oh, so the madmen from the Church that protests at military funerals is just fine? They have free speech but Jones does not?

[FreedomGuru]

The mayor of Dearborn has created “free speech zones”, they offered Terry Jones a “free speech zone” in front of the city hall.
During the trial the judge allowed a video tape of the koran burning to be played for the “jury”.
There were demonstrations at the mosque, while Terry Jones was in jail. I guess what’s good for the gander is not good for goose.

[OldDeckHand]

"The mayor of Dearborn has created “free speech zones”, they offered Terry Jones a “free speech zone” in front of the city hall."

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that yet. While I'm not an authority on the 1A, my understanding is that such "zones" are only enforceable against the backdrop of a larger demonstration/activity. For instance, when there's a planned political activity like a convention, or a large governmental meeting (like the g20), the Court - out of deference to crowd safety and control - might allow the establishment of these zones, but only in very limited time windows - windows that specifically coincide with the larger on-going planned activity.

I wouldn't think that Jones 2-person protest would meet those qualifications.

[oneolcop]

Could Jones have just shown up without announcing his intentions? Sure, but the point of his exercise was one of publicity. It's tough to get publicity if you don't tell the reporters when and where you're going to be.

Forgive me for using a trite and often misused phrase, but we have to 'think outside the box." Had Jones had an associate call the press and breathlessly say "Hey, there's some guy burning a koran down by the mosque right now!" The media would have arrived en masse. No "peace bond," no civil suit, no forewarning to the authorities, we win.

As a matter of law, it can (and will) be argued that any edict directed towards a demonstrator by authorities prior to a contemplated act is unconstitutional under the 1st Amendment which prohibits government from banning the expression of ideas. In fact, by seeking a permit or otherwise alerting the authorities to a contemplated action, we play right into their hands.

We simply must stop playing by their rules.

[EDINVA]

“Absolutely unbelievable.”

I’d say absolutely predictable. And on to SCOTUS. Jones ends up owning Dearborn.

[OldDeckHand]

"The media would have arrived en masse. No "peace bond," no civil suit, no forewarning to the authorities, we win."

Sure, that's possible. But, that's not what gets your face on the Today Show or Good Morning America for multiple days. It's the buildup and resulting anticipation of the coming event that generates media buzz and prolongs media exposure. If you burn a Koran (which, BTW Jones had absolutely no intention of doing), you hold the media's attention for one, maybe two news cycles because the media quickly focuses on the reaction to the event, rather than the event itself.

Television media especially wants to talk about things that are going to happen, even more than talking about things that will happen. It gives them a better show, and Jones - a guy who seems remarkably familiar with what gooses the media - also seems to know this.

[OldDeckHand]

That should have read...

"...even more than talking about things that have happened..."

[abb]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110423/METRO/104230375/Jones-plans-suit-against-Wayne-Co.-prosecutor-with-Ann-Arbor-law-firm
Jones plans suit against Wayne Co. prosecutor with Ann Arbor law firm

http://www.freep.com/article/20110423/NEWS02/110423012/Terry-Jones-Despite-judge-s-order-will-protest-mosque-next-week?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
Terry Jones: Despite judge’s order, I will protest at mosque next week

[OldDeckHand]

Well, that was quick. I thought that they might wait until after the Easter weekend.

Personally, I think he should go immediately to federal court, and get an injunction against the city barring enforcement of that ridiculously unconstitutional "peace bond", but it might also be - considering his pending federal claim - tactically advantageous to get arrested again.

Also, while the prosecutor probably enjoys immunity from federal criminal indictment regarding her blatant violation(s) of Mr. Jones' civil rights, her license to practice law should be SERIOUSLY examined.

[abb]

Remember how back during the 60s the civil rights demonstrators were arrested for “parading without a permit” and other such trumped-up baloney? What Dearborn is doing here is the exact same thing.

[Truth29]

"http://www.freep.com/article/20110423/NEWS02/110423012/Terry-Jones-Despite-judge-s-order-will-protest-mosque-next-week?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE Terry Jones: Despite judge’s order, I will protest at mosque next week"

Hopefully an attorney can elaborate, but since Terry Jones has now posted bond to be released from jail, if he demonstrates next week, he will be arrested and jailed for violating the Court's order and the conditions of his bond. This sounds like a trap to get around the 1st Amendment issues and jail Jones on a different charge all together.

[b4its2late]

Makes you go hmmmm, doesn't it?

Those crazies that pretend to be Baptists, Westboro Baptist Church nutjobs, won a Supreme Court case for right to protest military funerals?

[Mr. Silverback]

What Jones was planning to do was clearly well within the fighting words exemption and the jury did the right thing here. Too bad the Supreme Court couldn’t figure it out when it came to Phelps.

Those FReepers on this thread getting outraged about this need to take a minute and think about how many hundreds of ways there are to send the message that Islam is flase that don’t involve desecrating a book in front of people who believe it’s holy.

In essence, this is like saying that PETA folks who throw pigs blood on furriers are out of line; it’s not like saying PETA can’t have a billboard or form picket lines.

[oneolcop]

Well, I guess we’ll have to disagree. Buildup is nice, but a well orchestrated “spontaneous” event can be delightful and a koran burning in front of a mosque full of nutballs would be better than being arrested and not being able to do the deed.

[dfwgator]

In essence, this is like saying that PETA folks who throw pigs blood on furriers are out of line;

You are comparing burning one's own personal property to throwing blood on furriers?

[OldDeckHand]

"What Jones was planning to do was clearly well within the fighting words exemption and the jury did the right thing here."

Two thoughts. First, the canard about him planning on "burning a Koran" is fallacious. He has said, repeatedly and frequently that he had absolutely no such desire or plan.

Second, if the Court is going to allow neo-Nazis to parade down a neighborhood that is home to a pronounced population of Holocaust survivors, and carry Swatiskas while they do it, then no, I don't think what Jones had planned to do even remotely reaches the threshold of "fighting words".

"In essence, this is like saying that PETA folks who throw pigs blood on furriers are out of line"

No, it's nothing like that, at all. We enjoy a robust freedom of speech. We do not enjoy a robust freedom to assault others. Throwing blood, either at someone or directly on someone, is clearly criminal assault, and possibly aggravated assault considering the infectious potential of the blood itself.

Just marching, or speaking or picketing in front of a mosque does not constitute a threat. In fact, it is EXACTLY the kind of activity that the Founders set out to protect when they originally crafted the First Amendment.

[restornu]

I have heard that there are other “counter” demonstrations going on - no peace bond required there, though.

****

I heard that too it was on the TV news last night those who felt the need to protest the protest with out a bond nada....LOL

What is wrong with this picture Michigan?

I think that Jones is a misguided man but what our government is doing says more and Jones brought that to light!

I also heard there was a Muslim group who was defending Jones right to speak

You don’t hear much about that either it sort of makes you wonder how much the media has been still in the nation as a hole about all those who are Muslim really are not that silent who are posistive about America?