Posted on 04/14/2011 5:46:34 AM PDT by Former Fetus
The US Justice Department is asking a federal judge in South Carolina to allow it to intervene in a lawsuit against a sheriff who allegedly forbids prisoners in his jail from receiving books, magazines, or printed materials other than copies of the King James version of the Bible.
(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...
As far as the Torah and the Koran, it doesn't seem like the sheriff has outlawed them, he's just saying his office won't pay for them, you get your own. Again, what's wrong with that?
This sheriff makes me proud to be a South Carolinian, even if only by adoption!
I prefer the NIV myself...
Torah is in the Bible.
I agree with the sheriff. There is no freedom in jail. It’s jail.
And why should you have muslim brothers magazine mailed to you in jail.
Thanks to Holder (a quota lawyer if there ever was one), the Justice Dept is now our newest oxymoron...headed by a quota moron.
Actually, I shouldn't laugh about separation of church and state. I attend a small Baptist church in the heart of South Carolina. Last Sunday we arrived to church, just to find our sign on the ground, behind the Sunday school building. You see, our church is a block from the main highway and we used to have a sign in a BiLo parking lot. Now the BiLo is closed, the county has bought the property and you guessed it, they contacted the church and someone took the sign down on the grounds that it violated the separation of church and state. I was furious. We should have fought it, maybe ask for help from the Liberty COuncil and, if necessary, go all the way to the supreme court. Alas, it is too late, someone caved in before most of the members knew about it!
As usual, the real purpose of the lawsuit is buried DEEP in the article (hey, at least it's there, right?). This isn't about religious freedom -- the ACLU care nothing for that, it's about lawyers not being able to get their advertisements to prisoners. Gotta let these guys know all the possible law suits they could file to game the system, don'cha know.
"Welcome to Shawshank"
Don't you find it amazing that, with everything that is going on, the DOJ wants to get involved in whether or not immates at a small SC jail can get copies of "Sodomy for Dummies"?
When I shipped out to Great Lakes, IL for basic training in the US Navy, the only books permitted were the Bible and the Bluejacket’s Manual.
As far as the Torah .... , it doesn't seem like the sheriff has outlawed them, he's just saying his office won't pay for them, you get your own. Again, what's wrong with that? .... Former Fetus
What is wrong with that is that it spits in the face of the U.S. Constitution which prohibits the state-sponsored "establishment" of any one religion while prohibiting others. That conduct is straight out of the 17th Century.
This Sheriff has taken it upon himself to establish the Southern Baptist religion in his jail.
"You are a Southern Baptist and you want the Bible preferred by Southern Baptists?"
"No problem, son. In my jail, the taxpayers will provide the King James Version free of charge."
"You are Jewish and want a Torah or are Catholic and want a copy of the New American Bible?"
"Sorry, boy. In my jail, I don't even allow family members to send Jewish or Catholic versions of the Bible to Jews and Catholics."
Imagine if you were in jail in Utah and a Mormon Sheriff decreed that the Book of Mormon would be provided for free, courtesy of the taxpayers, but not even your family was allowed to provide you with a copy of the King James Version of the Bible.
It is as blatant a violation of the religious freedom of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution as you are likely to find.
Actually, all of the lawsuits filed by the ACLU are about the ACLU getting their legal fees paid, even if they lose. It’s called full employment for liberal lawyers.
If I remember correctly, the various states may establish religion. The Federal government is prohibited.
Nowhere does it say that "In my jail, I don't even allow family members to send Jewish or Catholic versions of the Bible to Jews and Catholics" like you claim. If you look at my previous post, there's a link to the local paper. There you can read that immates are allowed all types of religious books. But why should the Christian taxpayers of Berkeley County (probably 99% of the taxpayers) pay for Korans?
Are the taxpayers providing even that, or are the Gideons providing the Bibles?
I agree that the prohibition of other translations of the Bible and (while I am sure the thought will be even less popular) smacks of the 'establishment of a religion' the founders prohibited in the First Amendment, but this is not being done by Congress (who the founders prohibited from establishing a religion).
Furthermore, it is being done, not on the streets in an entire town/village/city/state/country, but in a prison, where the warden can demand that inmates wear prison garb (adjudicated in non-penal environments to be an infringement on First Amendment freedom of speech, via 'expression' being considered a form of 'speech').
Before kicking open the gates to every cult, or even established religion out there, we need to recall this is prison--the people there are being punished. Now if that includes not keeping up with the Kardashians, or not getting to read the material they choose, so be it.
Not according to the U.S. Supreme Court which is empowered by the U.S. Constitution to decide the issue.
Nullification is as dead as John C. Calhoun's body buried behind St. Philip's Episcopal Church.
Nowhere does it say that "In my jail, I don't even allow family members to send Jewish or Catholic versions of the Bible to Jews and Catholics" like you claim.
Maybe we are reading different languages but, at least in plain English, that is EXACTLY what the body of this thread says that the Sheriff does:
"The US Justice Department is asking a federal judge in South Carolina to allow it to intervene in a lawsuit against a sheriff who allegedly forbids prisoners in his jail from receiving books, magazines, or printed materials other than copies of the King James version of the Bible."
The last I heard, the "Authorized King James Version" of the Bible was written and "authorized" by the Church of England as a result of objections to earlier translations by the Puritan faction.
The last I heard, the Torah was written in Hebrew and not in 17th Century English.
A King James Version of the Bible is NOT a Catholic Bible and it is NOT a Torah.
If it is your claim and the Sheriff's claim that the article is lying, then it is the lawsuit's claim that the Sheriff is lying. The facts will come out in Court.
Be that as it may, your original position was:
"As far as the Torah and the Koran, it doesn't seem like the sheriff has outlawed them, he's just saying his office won't pay for them, you get your own. Again, what's wrong with that?"
Who carries a Bible or a Torah around with them? If you are in jail and you are forbidden to receive any book except the King James Version of the Bible, how, exactly, are you supposed to acquire a Torah if you are Jewish?
In Utah, the analogous situation would read like this:
"The US Justice Department is asking a federal judge in Utah to allow it to intervene in a lawsuit against a sheriff who allegedly forbids prisoners in his jail from receiving books, magazines, or printed materials other than copies of the The Book of Mormon."
An update from the local Monck’s Corner paper: An attorney for Sheriff Wayne DeWitt [...]said that, since June 2009, Berkeley County inmates have been allowed to receive any type of religious materials — including vampire and witchcraft texts — as long as the books are soft-sided and meet other physical requirements
Everybody is suppose to. iPhone has apps. I have a Bible in my car. This country is founded on the Bible, not the Book of Mormon.
Are the taxpayers providing even that, or are the Gideons providing the Bibles?
Either way, it is a blatant violation of the First Amendment which has, over the years, been under constant attack.
In regards to religion, the First Amendment requires two things:
The Establishment Clause requires that Government cannot play favorites between different religions.
The Free Exercise Clause prohibits the Government from prohibiting religious worship.
The entire issue of a "wall of separation between Church & State" is a fabrication used by liberals to establish atheism as the Politically Correct religion and completely ignore the Free Excersise Clause.
The First Amendment does not prohibit a high school valedictorian from saying a Christian prayer in his or her own speech. The First Amendment just requires that all other religions be given the same privilege so that there is no "favorite" established religion. If the valedectorian is Jewish, it is his constitutional right to say a Jewish prayer in his speech.
Likewise, the First Amendment prohibits Government from deciding that Gideons are allowed to hand out Bibles, because they use the King James Version, but the Knights of Columbus are not allowed because they hand out Catholic versions and the B'nai B'rith is certainly not allowed to hand out a Torah because it is in Hebrew and they left out the New Testament.
The Gideons handout Bible versions in 94 different languages so this particular Sheriff has taken it upon himself to ban 93 of those.
the founders prohibited in the First Amendment, but this is not being done by Congress (who the founders prohibited from establishing a religion).
As I wrote before, the Constitution has empowered SCOTUS to decide that issue, SCOTUS has decided that issue IAW the Constitution and Nullification is dead and buried.
Furthermore, it is being done, not on the streets in an entire town/village/city/state/country, but in a prison, where the warden can demand that inmates wear prison garb ...
Yes, but the Sheriff can not demand something SPECIFICALLY prohibited by the Constitution: Favoring one religious denomination over the others.
Before kicking open the gates to every cult, or even established religion out there, we need to recall this is prison--the people there are being punished.
Again, the First Amendment demands neutrality in religion.
If the "punishment" rational is used, it is unconstitutional for Southern Baptists in a South Carolina jail to be allowed the King James Version of the Bible for their religious worship while Jews are prohibited the Hebrew Torah for their religious worship.
If the "punishment" rational is used, it is unconstitutional for Mormons in a Utah jail to be allowed the Book of Mormon for their religious worship while Southern Baptists are prohibited the King James Version of the Bible for their religious worship.
If the "punishment" rational is used, it is unconstitutional for Catholics in a Louisiana Parish jail to be allowed Catholic versions of the Bible for their religious worship while Southern Baptists are prohibited the King James Version of the Bible for their religious worship.
what part of "they are not forbidden religious books" you don't understand? If you had checked the link I posted earlier,answer # 8, like I asked you to do, you would have read that "Berkeley County inmates have been allowed to receive any type of religious materials — including vampire and witchcraft texts".
As far as "nullification is dead and buried", Berkeley County is located in SC. Deal with it!
"Not forbidden religious books" ......
...... as long as the Jewish Torah and the Catholic versions of the Bible are delivered personally by the relatives while the favored Southern Baptists are given mailing privileges not allowed to the Jews and Papists.
What part of THE ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT FORBIDS YOU TO FAVOR ONE CHURCH OVER THE OTHER do you not understand?
What part of "forbids prisoners in his jail from receiving books, magazines, or printed materials other than copies of the King James version of the Bible" do you not understand?
This guy has a policy that the Bible specifically approved by Southern Baptists will be provided for free but the Catholic Bible and the Jewish Torah are not even allowed to be mailed in by a relative.
"You're a Southern Baptist, son? Here's a free copy of the King James Bible for you."
"You're a Jew, boy? And you want a Jewish Torah? Sorry, boy, but I won't even allow your mother to mail you a Jewish Torah to you. Just who do you think you are? A Southern Baptist? Only good Southern Baptist mothers have Holy Scripture mailing privileges in my jail."
What part of THE FIRST AMENDMENT FORBIDS YOU TO FAVOR ONE CHURCH OVER THE OTHER do you STILL not understand?
It's not Rocket Science.
The U.S. Constitution does NOT allow you to have one set of rules for Southern Baptists and a different set of rules for Catholics and Jews .... even if you live in South Carolina.
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