Posted on 04/03/2011 9:02:11 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Terry Jones burned a Koran, and an Afghan mob killed at least seven UN personnel. Connected? Surely, but that hardly makes Jones responsible for murder, he told ABC News in a Nightline interview last night:
CLICK ON THE ABOVE LINK FOR THE VIDEO OF TERRY JONES' STATEMENT
Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran last month, said he did not feel responsible for the violent protest at a United Nations compound in Afghanistan today that left at least 11 dead. Instead, he said the violence proved his point.
“We wanted to raise awareness of this dangerous religion and dangerous element,” Jones said. “I think [today's attack] proves that there is a radical element of Islam.”
As for the 11 dead, which included seven U.N. staffers and guards, Jones told “Nightline” anchor Bill Weir, “We do not feel responsible, no.”
Interestingly, I had a conversation about this with a family member yesterday. While I agreed that Jones was a publicity hound looking for attention, that doesn’t make him responsible for murder. The only people responsible for murders are those who commit them, and those who specifically incite them to kill. Any other position eventually wipes out free speech, free religious practice, and freedom altogether. If we held others responsible for the acts of every nutcase whose violent reactions may or may not have connections to something they did or said, we would have no speech at all — a point we made repeatedly during the Left’s Loughner frenzy, which they conveniently forgot during the Madison protests.
James Joyner warns today about acknowledging the “murderer’s veto”:
Should Jones have burned the Koran? No. But not because doing so might incite some evil people halfway around the world to commit atrocities against innocents. Rather, he shouldn’t have done it was needlessly hurtful without adding any value to the debate. Indeed, aside from generating publicity for himself, he’s likely generated sympathy for Islam and disdain for churches of his ilk.
But Jones is not the slightest bit culpable for the actions of others. Yes, he was warned that violence might ensue. But we’re not responsible for the evil, illegal actions others might take in response to our freely expressing our thoughts. Even if they’re ill-informed, half baked, bigoted thoughts. If we allow the possible reaction of the most dogmatic, evil people who might hear the message to govern our expression, we don’t have freedom at all. It’s worse than a heckler’s veto; it’s a murderer’s veto.
The responsibility for these murders lie with the people who committed them, just as with the murders and violence following the publication of the editorial cartoons in Denmark a few years ago.
CLICK ON THE ABOVE LINK FOR THE VIDEO OF TERRY JONES' STATEMENT
IT IS ABOUT SUBMITTING TO ISLAMIC SENSITIVITIES!!
The problems with the koran burning and the WTC Mosque
In all this argument of recent days, the most important fact of the matter has been obvious from the start, but is rarely spoken of by the media or the public.
Regarding the Florida koran burning, has anyone stepped back and listened to what people are saying in detail? The first thing a person will hear is how that Pastor has the Constitutional right to do what he is doing.
The next series of statements, however, are always the majority of statements made in these conversations, namely: It is the wrong thing to do, it is inciteful, it is a cult in Florida, muslims will hate us, it will endanger the troops, and, most importantly for this conversation: we are not at war against a religion, but extremists of that religion.
This is important because of the islamic world's reaction to this Florida Pastor; namely, that the islamic world immediately protested the planned koran burning by condemning the entire country of the United States and marched and chanted promoting our deaths to cries of "DEATH TO AMERICA!"
The response by virtually all American politicians has been an apologetic tone, one where they immediately call for the koran burning to stop, observations that it IS inciteful and that the threats to Americans at home and American Troops abroad are not acceptable and that the safety of the American public are paramount in this case.
Their tone has been to cower in fear at these threats. Not one politician has stepped forward and exclaimed, "Islam is not being attacked by an entire country or an entire religion, Islam is only being attacked by a radical. Islam needs to remember we are not all against Islam and threats to our safety are wrong and inciteful and hate filled."
Not one. They cower to the islamic world, refuse to hold them to the same standard of behavior as they insist from their own people, refuse to insist that the Pastor in Florida is an anomaly and that the United States is no threat to islam.
What they did was bow in submission to the sensitivities of the islamic world and deny the Florida Pastor his civil rights to speak out like an American.
The islamic world will not notice. They will riot anyways. It is identical to the cartoonists in Denmark. All it took was one cartoonist to make a cartoon of Muhammad and the entire islamic world was in the streets and threatening to kill anyone who makes a cartoon of Muhammad.
Theo Van Gogh made a movie about this islamic submission in Holland, and they killed him for making the movie.
The Florida Koran burning case is quite similar to the Ground Zero mosque case with some significant differences. In Florida, the Pastor must stop his koran burning or there will be violence across the globe, and in fact, even if he does stop, there will be violence across the globe due to him stating he wanted to burn korans. In New York City, the Imam who wants to build a mosque 2 blocks away from Ground Zero, he said on CNN that if we move the mosque or deny it's construction, there will be violence across the globe.
In both cases, if we do not submit to islamic sensitivities, there will be violence across the globe, in fact, even if we do submit to islamic sensitivities, there will most likely be violence anyways due to the fact that we spoke of those things.
Free speech is threatened in Florida, and a new twist is happening in New York City, something that Israel has seen does not work, and that is LAND FOR PEACE.
The Ground Zero mosque is about LAND FOR PEACE. If we give islam the land to make a mosque, there will be peace. If we do not give islam the land, there will be violence.
Think this through people. In both of these cases, neither has anything to do with the original concerns people expressed. It is solely about whether we submit to islamic sensitivities or have violence.
It is about Islamic blackmail of the United States.
James Bancroft USMC 1977-1981
“Isn’t he a friend of Fred Phelps...”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2699021/posts
What one of the leaders of Jones’ “Dove Outreach Center” has to say about the Westboro loons:
“Westboro Baptist is not anti-military or anti-USA. Rather the opposite, actually. Do some research. They go to funerals because the Bible says that a fallen soldier is a sign of God’s wrath and a reminder of the condition of this world, a fallen world, in sin. We all know that. None of us want to fight wars. We have to, and we honor the fallen for their sacrifice, but funerals are also a chance to repent and get our lives right with God before our own comes along.
The soldier who is already dead knows what’s coming, whether they are in heaven or hell. I think they would be glad for the extra reminder to loved ones that they still have time to make a choice and use the rest of their time given here for God rather than wasting it, in a spiritual sense.”
OK then.
Freegards
Just like they alwasy tell us that all muslims are not terrorist, all americans are not koran burners.
Which is part of why America is a walking corpse, if there's not a complete turnabout. This a war that both sides cannot win.
Lol. You're claiming to be on both sides of the fence between good and evil. Not possible :).
Let me ‘splain something to you since you are being delibertely provocative on what the topic of this thread is not about. This thread is NOT about terry jones, per se. It’s about FREEDOM. Freedom of speech. Freedom of HIS religion, whatever the hell it is. Freedom to be for or against something. Freedom of expession. This is about AMERICA.
And let me also give you analogy. Years ago, the Supreme Court of these United States upheld the RIGHT of nazi scum to march through Skokie, Illinois which was heavily populated with Holocaut survivors. There were counter demonstrations, but no one saw crazed Jews beheading American nazis. No one saw crazed Israelis rioting in the streets of Israel and bombing the American or German embassy. No one saw crazed Jews rioting in the streets of Germany. No one saw crazed Jews burning down Christian churches. No one saw crazed Jews demanding that the UNITED STATES apologize for being the LAND OF THE FREE.
And if “pastor” jones had burned a cross, Christians would not be threatening him with murder, or killing any innocent people for his “stunt.”
obama had a chairman mao Christmas ornament on his tree in OUR White House, which I personally think is far worse than anybody burning a book of evil, but that’s justme. I didn’t like it, but there is NO LAW in this country that prevents even HIM from defiling OUR House with such an obscenity.
Furthermore, if ANY government official in this country apologizes to these homicidal mutants for OUR FREEDOM, he/she deserves to be castigated beyond belief.
Does AMERICA still exist? If you think it does, then defend IT and everything that it stands for, or shut up!
Definitely? “Raise awareness”? The only ones who are in denial over what Islam is are leftists and our government. The majority of Americans know what we’re dealing with. He’s a publicity whore. Muslim savagery doesn’t make that any less so.
If Pastor Jones simply does nothing, it does not in anyway endorse or promote Islam.
If we do not violently oppose the Ground Zero Mosque, then we are, as you so eloquently shouted, SUBMITTING TO ISLAMIC SENSITIVITIES!!!! We should not bend even a little.
I consider Mosques built in the U.S.to be roughly equivalent to the Chinese building military bases within our borders. Sort of an entry point for an invading army.
I equate Jones' Koran burning with 60's radicals flag burning. It's a symbolic gesture that doesn't accomplish anything other than provoke the intended target.
Although we share the same opinion of the real threat of Islam, there is zero chance I will sway you to my point of view about Jones.
Maybe I shouldn’thave said to shut up. That is a tad hypocritical. SO, you just keep talkin’ and I will reply if you say anything worth replying to.
Thought so.. This is not the guy we shouldn’t be praising..
Please tell me where I ever said Pastor Jones doesn’t have the right to burn a Koran?
And this thread was precisely about Jones.
You don’t get decide what my position is on this subject. My whole argument is about the actions of one misguided man. You keep trying to turn my argument into a larger philosophical point I am simply not making.
Jones clearly has the constitutional right to “act stupidly.”
You wouldn’t be the first woman to tell me to shut up...probably not the last.
If I am not mistaken, what terry jones did was exactly that. A REaction to the Ground Zero mosque. That’s what started this ball rolling. Maybe your chronograph needs fixin’.
LOL! I suspect that is probably true.
You need to wake up, not one action of anyone here is responsible for their hatred, nor will silencing anyone here be anything more than appeasing them.
That’s appeasement couched as discretion. You cannont appease Nazis or Islamonazis.
Sorry for the rude tone though.
I actually proposed a plan that would allow construction to begin, and every couple of months blow it up. It would be a great cultural experience for the Mosque to experience what it's like to have your stuff blown up for no good reason, while providing NY unions a perpetual construction project. Win win.
Not sure how Koran burning would help stop the Mosque building.
That’s EXACTLY the case the Jewish leaders in the ghetto made.
“Easy for you partisans in the forest to be brave, but we Jews in the ghetto are the ones who suffer the reprisals! Don’t anger the Nazis, or we’ll suffer!”
(I assume you do know where the Nazis got the idea for the stars of David to be worn on the clothes of the Jews, correct?)
Uh huh! That would definitely not get a whole bunch of muslim outrage goin’ or anybody killed or anything. I like it.
They might even reciprocate and blow up the un, (thinking it would tick us off or something,)
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