Posted on 03/18/2011 10:18:43 AM PDT by Scythian
The boss of the company behind the devastated Japanese nuclear reactor today broke down in tears - as his country finally acknowledged the radiation spewing from the over-heating reactors and fuel rods was enough to kill some citizens
'In hindsight, we could have moved a little quicker in assessing the situation and coordinating all that information and provided it faster.'
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Thanks for injecting sanity in this discussion.
Far too often, anti-nuclear activists have stopped safe plants and the result has been LESS SAFE plants ... for example, here in the US we could have a whole new, safer, generation of nuclear power plants. But the permitting and costs are high, so the power plant operators will simply extend the life of the existing power plants instead. Still safe, but dont be surprised if we have an accident in 2040 and some smart aleck asks why the US was so stupid to keep 80 year old technology around in their nuke plants....
They DID plan for an earthquake and Tsunami.
They built a 20 foot seawall in an area where around it there were no seawalls. They had it rated for an 8.2 earthquake, they had backup systems.
Everything worked as well as can be expected.
Only thing is, it was 8.9 instead of 8.2, and a 23 foot surge instead of 20 ft. Why not build higher or more? Well, where do you stop? how much extra do you spend for a 1 in a billion event? An extra billion dollars to cover events that wont occur in 999 out of 1000 plants?
You CANNOT plan for a 6-sigma or 7-sigma extraordinary event like this. Any planner forecasting a 23 ft surge would look at the area and say “huh, so this nuclear plant is to survive a Tsunami that is so severe it will kill 50,000 people. What about spending that money saving those 50,000 instead of putting more safety in an already pretty safe nuke plant, or using the money a different way?”
And what’s the answer to that?
The nuke in the end is the MOST SAFE building of them all, compared with the thousands and thousands of others that were swept away.
“That’s all reasonable, but there is a difference between Tsunami victims and people who end up being victims of radioactive contamination. The people who lost their homes or even their lives in the Tsunami, they willingly took the risk of living on the coast in the path of a potential Tsunami wave.”
Really. They knew the risk and calculated it right? That why thousands were killed? They ‘chose it’. THE MIND BOGGLES at your insensitivity.
Again 50,000 Tsunami deaths.
0 nuclear power plant meltdown deaths.
WHICH IS THE REAL RISK? AND DID PEOPLE ASSESS THE RISKS RIGHT?
CLEARLY WE ARE OVER_EXAGGERATING THE NUCLEAR RISK AND UNDER-STATING THE TSUNAMI RISK.
“So a lot of people right now within 50 miles of that plant (and maybe farther that that as this accident continues) are getting their houses and cars contaminated with radioactive material and never chose to take that risk.”
Minute doses of miniscule harm compared to the tsunami death toll... They HAVE chosen to take that risk ...
in the same sense that a person living in california is ‘choosing’ to have themselves killed tomorrow by the top 10 worst earthquake in history.
It’s a false dichotomy to assume a natural disaster is a ‘chosen’ death and a combo of natural-and-man-made is not. The only difference is the massively smaller risk of harm from the nuclear power plant.
Here’s the EPA’s RadNet monitoring data for the left coast and Hawaii:
http://www.epa.gov/japan2011/rert/radnet-data.html#california
See what the graphs look like for yourself.
If you think the EPA is cooking the books, about the only thing you can do is a) buy your own geiger counter (Whoops, no you can’t, because they’re sold out, just like KI pills), b) learn how to operate and interpret the readings.
Actually, I think the exercise of buying, calibrating and operating your own Geiger counter would be a very useful thing for some people to do. It would teach them a great deal about nuke physics, instrument capabilities, interference issues, background radiation and the different spectrums of radiation.
It’s a good idea, you can buy Russian ones (not now) and Civil Defense ones that work, 50 years old now.
Sadly I’ve wondered why there aren’t cheaper low range and high res ion chambers made in the last 10 years.
Actually, I think the exercise of buying, calibrating and operating your own Geiger counter would be a very useful thing for some people to do. It would teach them a great deal about nuke physics, instrument capabilities, interference issues, background radiation and the different spectrums of radiation.
I found one site that had professional Geiger counters for sale for about $900 each.
The Wall Street Journal Blog is reporting that they have identified specific isotopes that are from Japan. Miniscule
but nonetheless travelers.
You could build your own for relatively little money if you understand some electronics. The circuitry isn’t way-out-there difficult for someone like a radio ham (or similar electronics buff).
The reason why commercial meters cost so much is the same reason why commercial DVM’s, oscilloscopes, etc cost so much: calibration. When you want to really KNOW how many count per minute you’re getting, you need to have a reference against which you calibrate your instrument. Now, where you gonna get that?
OK, then there’s the issue of different types of ionizing radiation reference sources.
You can see how this part of the exercise starts getting pretty expensive pretty quickly...
But for the skilled hobby/hacker application, you could build a simple ionizing radiation meter, just look at the meter output during “normal” times and then you’d know when the level is “elevated” above your standard background. For many people in survivalist situations, this alone is useful.
Indeed, a GM tube isn’t that hard to build.
I’m surprised the guy didn’t crack before this...for that matter all those working to get this in hand. I cannot begin to imagine being in an earthquake..then Tsunami strike..then this...defies imagination...while attempting to prevent meltdowns in SIX reactors at the same time.
Forget it, man. You didn’t understand the points I was making. I won’t bother you again with any reply posts.
Ah, now I know why tuna fish was on sale this week in California.
The distributors are anticipating a hysteria-driven drop in the buying of tuna.
I really stocked up.
OTOH, they planned on using sea water to cool the reactor as a back up. That wouldn’t have been feasible if they were 20 miles inland as you suggest. Then people would be saying it was stupid to expect to pump seawater 20 miles inland after a 9.0 earthquake.
Moral: Life can’t be made perfectly safe, no matter how hard you try.
My brother retired a year or so ago. He had been an airline captain.
He said the amount of radiation they get in the cockpit flying at high altitudes is pretty high, and that is why the pilots refused to go through scanners on top of the risk they already take just flying.
I’m so thankful we still have him. One of his pilot friends was flying one of the 9/11 planes. He was downright fearful of having his throat slit, too. He qualified for air marshal and was armed during his last years. But it was the personal combat self defense training he got while qualifying that gave him the most comfort.
He inherited my father’s narrow arteries and needed bypass surgery when he was 56. Wasn’t from poor health habits as he was and is incredibly fit and active. So, a year after the surgery he was cleared to go back flying. His first flight out of DFW, one of the Rolls Royce engines blew up, and he had to turn around and make an immediate emergency landing. No sweat, just like the simulator. He was so unfazed that he took the substituted plane out and the passengers applauded when the saw he was going to take them out. “We’re going to keep doing this till we get it right,” he quipped.
He’s my dearest brother, and I know how you must ache at the loss of yours.
I believe that women commit seppuko (cut their throats) while men commit hara-kiri, abdominal stab down to the aorta, and continuing around till their intestines spill out if they are able.
Now you watch, they are using this event in Japan with the damaged fuel in the one storage pond as an argument that, gee, it isn't "safe" to store the fuel at the plants. That means that the nuclear plants are unsafe and we have to shut them down. Well, who were the ones agitating to keep the fuel at the plants? The anti-nuke kooks. So their own argument made the plants less safe, in their opinion.
The whole stupid "movement" is full of these obvious contradictions that are as plain as day to anyone with the eyes to see and brain to comprehend, yet they are never called on any of it, in the media, in the governing bodies, in the public. It just is mind boggling to anyone with a lick of sense.
"The Environmental Protection Agency and the Energy Department said in a statement a radiation monitor in Sacramento, Calif., detected minuscule quantities of the radioactive isotope xenon-133. The readings validated similar ones from March 16 and 17 taken from monitors in Washington state, they said.
.....Later in the artical
The levels detected in California were about 0.1 disintegrations per second per cubic meter of air, a dose rate equal to one-millionth of what a person normally receives from rocks, bricks, the sun and other natural background sources, the statement said."
The facts are that:
Xenon-133 is a gas with a half-life of 5.243 days and is commonly used in medical procedures to detect cancer.
Xenon-135 (same half-life) is produced as a result of nuclear fission and acts as a neutron absorber in nuclear reactors.
Maybe they know what they are talking about!!! Or maybe they have an adjenda and are trying to feed into the hysteria about anything nuclear.
"The levels detected in California were about 0.1 disintegrations per second per cubic meter of air, a dose rate equal to one-millionth of what a person normally receives from rocks, bricks, the sun and other natural background sources, the statement said."
You did far more real damage to you body than any potential damage that may have been done by the minuscule amounts mentioned.
Strong work. LOL.
Whatever. It’s not panic and hysteria to understand that miniscule amounts of radiation are arriving here from Japan.
I work in healthcare and never had any intentions of taking anything nor of freaking out. Going to the other extreme and denying it is not good science either though.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.