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To: Red Steel

Neil AberCommie ran his mouth for over 2 years that Obama was born in Hawaii including that silly and doesn’t mean anything resolution. When AberCommie became Gov, and it was time to put up or shut up troll-BOT, he could not put up so he shut up. No Barack Obama hospital generated birth certificate. It doesn’t exist.


Here’s the truth, not Red Steel lies and fantasies:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate
Abercrombie ran up against the same Attorney General legal opinion that former Governor Lingle ran up against with her Republican Attorney General, Mark Bennett.

It remains true that if anybody wants to see if an Obama long form, vault copy, original birth certificate really exists, all they need do is get a judge to issue a court order to force its release.

It also remains true that any chairman of a congressional committee can issue a congressional subpoena for that document as a part of an investigation of Obama’s eligibility.


30 posted on 03/12/2011 7:10:43 PM PST by jamese777
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To: jamese777; butterdezillion
"Lies and fantasies."


That describes you OBot.

It has been documented many times that Hawaii doesn't even follow their own rules and laws.

Don't give me your crap that Obama has a long form birth certificate. He does not. Hawaii, if they followed their own rules could legally produce Obama's birth certificate, but the clowns don't have one to show.



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Red Flags in Hawaii

Red Flags in Hawaii

People are asking how so many terrorist red flags could be overlooked by so many.  The same way these “birther” red flags were not only overlooked but ridiculed:

1.       DOH Director Fukino  illegally hid until Nov 2009 the DOH Administrative Rules showing that election officials could have received a copy of Obama’s original birth certificate without his permission. The DOH has said they can’t release any records without Obama’s permission. But HRS 338-18(a) allows state laws and DOH rules to govern the disclosure of vital records, and the current rules -Chapter 8b, 2.5(A)(1)(f) -would allow any election officer transacting the placement of Obama’s name on the ballot to receive a certified copy.

 

2.       The DOH has falsely said that HRS 338-18 prohibits disclosure of government processing records. There are 2 kinds of records – records of the vital events themselves, and records of the government’s handling (  http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0001.htm) of those records.

Certificates are the record of the vital events. HRS 338-18(a) says that information about the actual birth, death, marriage, and divorce events may only be released according to the provisions set by law or Department of Health rules, thus referring everyone to the DOH Administrative Rules to see how information on actual certificates may be disclosed and to whom. Far from barring “any disclosure” as claimed by the DOH, current Administrative Rules allow a non-certified abbreviated copy of a birth (Chapter 8b, 2.5B), marriage (Ch 8b, 2.8C), or death (Ch8b, 2.6C) certificate to be released to anyone who asks for it. However, a public statement of where someone was born – such as Fukino’s July 27, 2009 statement about Obama – is not allowed by the rules (Ch 8b, 2.1A).

All other records are public, except that neither direct viewing nor certified copies are allowed unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest. Non-certified copies, abstracts,  and disclosure of information from the documents are not prohibited – which, according to Hawaii’s “Sunshine Law” (UIPA) means they must be disclosed upon request, except for certain exemptions, such as for information having privacy interest that outweighs the public interest in disclosure: date of birth, gender, and address .

 

Since a damaging disclosure of records processing was made in September (see #3), The DOH has been denying access to these records by claiming that ANY DISCLOSURE is forbidden.

 

3.       Though ridiculing “birthers” publicly, the DOH has PRIVATELY confirmed Obama’s online COLB’s as forgeries – a fact the DOH has known since the beginning. Because processing information is subject to disclosure, the DOH was forced in Sept 2009 to reveal that Obama’s birth certificate has been amended  (OIP interpretation) and that Obama or his representative has paid a fee to have his certificate amended at the very time he was considering a run for the presidency. Amendments must be noted on the certificate (Ch 8b, 3.1), so the DOH has known this entire time that both the Factcheck and Fight the Smears COLB’s are forgeries, since they have no amendment noted.

When asked point-blank on Feb 22, 2010 whether the denial of access confirmed the existence of Obama’s amendment documents, the OIP refused to refute that understanding, saying (after 2 e-mails asking clarification) that they were too busy to address the question.

 

4. The combination of certificate number and filing date on the Factcheck COLB is not possible. The DOH has confirmed that the certificate number is assigned by them when they file the certificate. Observed certificate numbers corroborate this as well, and so does page 232 of the CDC’s 1961 Natality Report. The Factcheck COLB says it was filed at the DOH 3 days before the Nordkye twins’ certificates but has a later number than theirs. The certificate number is the same on a COLB as it is on an original, long-form BC, so it makes no difference that the Nordykes’ are long-forms and Factcheck’s a COLB. The DOH has refused to release the certificate number for Obama even though they are required by UIPA to do so.

 

5.       Every government agency in Hawaii contacted thus far has explicitly denied that they have a responsibility to report known forgery and/or have refused to report suspected forgery to law enforcement.  This includes the Department Of Health, Office of Information Practices (OIP), lieutenant governor’s office, and every member of Hawaii’s House and Senate. Janice Okubo of the DOH seems to have stated that law forbids her to disclose ANYTHING about a birth certificate– even that it’s a critical, very public forgery. The Ombudsman’s Office has said they don’t investigate crimes and only report evidence they uncover themselves. See no evil…

 

6.       The amendment made to Obama’s birth certificate renders it insufficient evidence for legal purposes.  Minor administrative errors (such as typos) don’t remove the prima facie evidentiary value of a birth certificate, but such no-fault errors don’t result in a fee (Ch 8b 3.5C, 3.11, 3.1,  & HRS 338-17) and Obama was charged a fee – as the DOH confirmed again on March 23, 2010. Legal name changes also don’t affect the evidentiary value, but the lieutenant governor’s office has confirmed that there has been no legal name change for anyone named Obama, Dunham,  Soetoro, or Sutoro.

 

7.       Kapiolani Hospital received a letter signed by Obama on White House stationery and with raised seal claiming Obama was born there, even though that could only be true if Obama’s amendment contradicted the doctor’s testimony. If he had been born in a Hawaii hospital the hospital itself would have been responsible for the content on the birth certificate and the DOH responsible for any clerical typos. The only way Obama would be charged for an amendment is:

             a)       if he or his representative claimed to have filled out the certificate themselves and erred, or

             b)      if Obama claimed the doctor’s testimony was wrong.

 

8.       The DOH has broken Hawaii law to make rule changes (see July 11 addendum at bottom) that would protect Obama.  In mid-June of 2009 the DOH stated that they will no longer issue long-form birth certificates. This is in direct violation of the current rules, without following HRS 91-3 mandates for an open process for rule changes – the first of several such violations within the past year. 

 

9.       Fukino stated on July 27, 2009 that Obama’s records verify his birth in Hawaii, but Hawaii law forbids her to conclude that, since all the DOH has is legal hearsay. According to PHR Chapter 8b and HRS 338-17, only a judicial or administrative person or group can evaluate the accuracy of the claims when an amended document is presented as evidence. Obama has had many, many opportunities to present his birth certificate as evidence in lawsuits. He has refused – even going so far as rescinding military orders rather than risk a judge seeing his birth certificate. There is no process by which Obama would present his records to Fukino as evidence.

 

10.       Having made the illegal statement, Fukino refused to obey UIPA which required her to release the documents on which her statement was based.

 

11.   The DOH has deleted documents required to be stored for at least 2 years. The DOH says it no longer has the UIPA request or invoices showing Obama’s birth certificate was amended. The DOH’s own “Rules of Practice & Procedure”  (11-1-30) say that documents must be stored as long as the case can be contested –  August 2011 in this case. (Note: the invoices have met their retention period if they were created in 2006 so the HDOH would be correct to not have them any longer.)

12.   Fukino averted discipline against herself by promoting the OIP director, who was replaced by the attorney who has designed the DOH’s deceptive responses. Six days after Leo Donofrio’s  blog said he would ask OIP Director Tsukiyama for disciplinary action against Fukino and Okubo for their deception, Tsukiyama resigned  from the OIP to take a promotion to a company on whose board of directors Fukino sits. He granted Cathy Takase’s request to have control of all DOH matters and asked her to replace him.

Now OIP is leaving HRS 338-18 rulings up to the DOH and refuses to clarify what kinds of responses qualify as Glomar responses. All DOH responses contain deceptions #1&2, including disobeying their own rules for non-certified abbreviated copies of birth, marriage, and death certificates.  They deny that documents exist which are required by law, such as descriptions of their forms,  procedures,  and instructions which are mandated in HRS 91, etc.. (Note: the retention period for the 1961 lists is past, so the HDOH is correct not to have them.)

13. Apparently in response to this blog post and a request for a legislative investigation of these matters, Hawaii State Senator Will Espero has introduced a bill that would allow the OIP to label people who ask too many questions as “vexatious requestors” who are then blacklisted from access to government records for 2 years. The net effect of the bill would be to overturn UIPA. They also want to fine “vexatious requestors”…

14. The DOH is falsifying the communication logs in e-mails to frame the requestor as what Cathy Takase calls ”mentally ill” - thus fit to label as a “vexatious requestor” and blacklist for 2 years.

15. The DOH claims that original records required to be retained permanently (original birth index and index of foreign births) don’t exist. Either they are lying or they have illegally destroyed permanent records.

Red flags. This information has been given to every lawmaker in Hawaii, the OIP, DOH, Ombudsman’s office, HI lieutenant governor’ and governor’s offices, Nebraska’s US attorney (who says they won’t take reports from citizens), and Hawaii’s director of the Department of Public Safety, as well as to multiple news organizations.  The FBI thrice said they don’t investigate document fraud. All refused to act. Red flags.

 

 

 

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32 posted on 03/12/2011 8:56:28 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: jamese777; Red Steel; patlin

jamese there is a rule of Vattel..you should follow......

never accept an interpretation that leads to an absurdity


39 posted on 03/13/2011 2:18:59 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: jamese777
Abercrombie ran up against the same Attorney General legal opinion that former Governor Lingle ran up against with her Republican Attorney General, Mark Bennett.

No, stupid is as stupid does:

According to published reports, Dr. Fukino has admitted that her July 27th statement received the verbal approval of the HI Attorney General, who “o.k.’d it.”

In an attempt to corroborate the contents of Dr. Fukino’s statement and understand better the value of that testimony, I put the following two questions to Nagamine, as a member of the press.

I am seeking some information in response to 2 questions I have. Please understand that your response(s) or non-response will be quoted by our paper.

Q. 1: Does the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health have any statutory duty or authority to define the citizenship status of anyone whose vital record(s) are kept by that department?

Q.2: According to the legal references employed by your office, what is the defition of a “natural-born citizen” of the United States of America?

I put my question to the Deputy Attorney General to avoid putting the Attorney General in a situation of a conflict of interest, if he in fact, did, as Dr. Fukino claims, advise her regarding her July statement.

Nagamine, in response, asserted that any answer to such questions given by her office would represent a conflict of interest for her office. And that is an explicit admission that Dr. Fukino had no statutory authority nor duty to make such a statement, and that the Attorney General’s office will not stand behind Fukino’s claim that Obama is a “natural-born American citizen.” It is such, because if Fukino’s declaration had legal weight of any kind, surely a response to my questions would have corroborated that without such a conflict-of-interest scenario. You only have a conflict if the Fukino claim would not be supported by a Nagamine response.

http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/02/02/hi-attorney-generals-office-refuses-to-corroborate-obamas-hi-birth/

40 posted on 03/13/2011 3:21:40 PM PDT by patlin (Ignorance is Bliss for those who choose to wear rose colored glasses)
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