Posted on 02/27/2011 9:17:55 AM PST by mojito
Exit polls and early tallies from Ireland's general election heralded political annihilation for Fianna Fail (FF), the party which has ruled Ireland for more than 60 years of the Irish Republic's eight decades of independence.
The unprecedented and historic defeat, Fianna Fail's worst result in 85 years, makes the Irish government the first eurozone administration to be punished by voters in the aftermath of the EU's debt crisis. Voter turn-out was exceptionally high at more than 70 per cent, indicating public anger at the government and the EU.
Late last year, Ireland was forced to accept a £72 billion EU-IMF bailout to cover huge public debts that were ran up to save failed Irish banks.
The bail-out was designed to prevent financial contagion that threatened the existence of the euro, but according to economic forecasts, the cost of servicing Irish bank debt and the EU-IMF bank loans will consume 85 per cent of Ireland's income tax revenue by 2012, a burden that a majority of voters find intolerable.
Brian Cowen, the Irish Prime Minister and Fianna Fail leader, who stood down last month rather than face furious voters, was also pressured into implementing a savage £13billion austerity programme of tax rises and spending cuts drawn up by the EU.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
Having lived in California the past 25 years I can attest that facts or logic have no place in a discussion anymore.
God willing, Monday is my last day in this socialist Mecca.
You speak as if we are in a kindergarten: I don't need anything, and logic is not mine and does not belong to anybody else. You've confused the ability to reason logically with logic itself. A pompous person may indeed emphasize his/her ability. I did not: I suggested for you to be a little more thoughtful before you write, because doing otherwise impedes a discussion.
If you care for a discourse, you want to ensue that you are understood. Your remarks do suggest, however, that you are more interested in the discussants' personae rather than the subject matter. Rather than taking my words at face value --- or at least thinking of a split second what that face value may be --- you put other words in my mouth. When I objected to that, you take offense. This makes sense only in kindergarten.
Consider another logical pearl of yours: Quark first declared your statement is strong and then proceeded to state because it is strong it can't be valid. How illogical is that?
Yes, any statement like "people are...", which is typicality read as "all people are..." has almost no chance to be correct. This is a well known fact in both physical and social sciences. Unqualified, hence too strong, statements always attract attention for that reason and can scarecely be found in scientific literature.
You can easily verify what I said. If unclear about what I said, you could ask a clarifying question. You could've also ask --- in fact, demand --- mor examples. You preferred to have done none of the aboce. Well, that's your choice.
"and then proceeded to state because it is strong it can't be valid."
It would indeed be invalid to argue that just because a statement is strong, it is invalid. I did no such thing. I gave explained why that particular statement is invalid. The remark about the strength was a general observation which I though would be helpful, because you resort to strong, unsupported statements with notable east. It was not helpful. That too is your choice.
What is not entirely up to you is to have a discussion with me. Since you appear to be interested in all sorts of things but the subject at hand, I cannot contribute: I am not interested in discussing personae --- yours, mine or anybody else's.
Have a good night.
Yout: "It only matters who counts the votes, dead or alive.
TQ, replying to that remark: Majority [ of votes ] cannot be purchased.
You: having lived in California for the past 25 years, I have to disagree with you.
Surely you are not suggesting that millions of Californian votes are somehow "miscounted."
All this is not important compared to the big change that appears to be going on in your life: "Monday is my last day living in this socialist mecca."
I am very happy for you. Hope you'll have as easy of a move as it can be, and you'll be very happy in the new place.
Best wishes,
TQ.
There was nothing personal in what I said either. I attacked your words, not you personally. There is a difference. ( Perhaps, that's the real source of your discomfort: someone holds you accountable to what you say? )
Was there any comfortable way for anybody to to make you stop, think and explain to yourself why your words correspond so well to socialist propaganda, why someone who calls himself LeaningRight leans left so much?
One would think that a conservative who is confused with a leftist, even if he gave that impression on accident, would be really concerned. Well, that's your choice, of course. You appear to choose the comfort of loose thinking, even if it leads you to absorb and inadvertently repeat socialist propaganda --- and the truth and reality be d--mned.
So be it. Believe me, I had no stake in this exchange except to make you think once more about something that you might not have really thought about for a long time. Well, I've tried and failed. So be it.
Have a good night.
“Remember that those who lack facts to back up their arguments, often revert to name calling. How Alinsky is that?”
You nailed it. He is on someone’s payroll.
It is true, I have never looked up "strong" is Webster, but in logic --- and consequently in mathematics, economics, etc. --- one routinely uses expressions such as a "stronger characterization of an elliptic curve," "week" and "strong" topology, "week" and "strong" convergence, etc..
I have given you an example with a statement of "all people are..." Yes, it is very strong --- the strongest there is --- because it ( the portion after "are" ) purports to apply to all people. Since people are very different from each other, what is true about one is often false about another; so the same thing is NOT likely to be true when applied to very different people.
Compare the above to a statement of the form "people that make more than $50,000/ year are..." This statement applies to a much smaller group, thereby tacitly admits that this group is indeed different from the population as a whole and other groups, and says something much smaller.
Now look at your statement, which you simply threw out there: "Voters don't matter" It says that all voters, in all situations don't matter. Just because it purports to apply everywhere it has almost no chance to be correct as stated it is easy to find an exception, and (in logic) even one exception disqualifies the statement. Here is one counter-example: as we speak, Irish voters threw out the ruling party that has governed them since independence from Brittan. Voters clearly mattered in at least this case, hence the general statement is invalid.
So, to answer you question:
I suppose that logic you are referring to is represented by your post in which you write: "The stronger the statement, the less applicability it has. When speaking about a democracy, "Voter's don't matter" is too strong to have any chance at being valid." ;-)
Yes, the answer is in the affirmative.
The smile emoticon at the end of your question makes you look silly. Not only do you fail to know some basic notions of reasoning --- you don't even know that you don't know. And on top of that you smile when someone explains that to you? Never mind that it's rude: don't even realize how ignorant you look?
And what is that ping to half of the word about something so concrete that it hardly interest anybody? You can't speak unless surrounded by a crowd?
Unfortunately, I have a policy of not wrestling with pigs and children. Let's have another conversation when you mature a little and learn some manners, OK?
Have a good night.
Don’t worry - the liberal elite at the EU will show the stupid bumpkins of Ireland who’s boss. :)
No this state is loony enough to elect Karl Marx. "It only matters who counts the votes, dead or alive."This was a Mao reference, but it does however apply in many state. I have to believe it is not universal, but certainly played a part in Minnesota, Washington, and Ohio, where Soros influenced the Secretary of state elections.
Because I am a little long of tooth, some times I ramble.
So why bother voting...
It is really a shame. The Irish fought so very long for freedom and then pissed it away by joining the EU... What can one say?
I agree with you 100%. Makes me sad.
I see no problem at all, sir/madam.
Thank you for taking time to explain your position in detail. Now that I understand better what you meant in the previous posts, I agree for the most part.
Ireland should follow the Icelandic model.
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Where is a good link to understand Iceland’s Model?
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